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Topic: Galadriel

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Date: Oct 24, 2006
Galadriel

I've seen it posted in other threads about Galadriel seeking pardon from the Valar before returning to Valinor.

I'm looking for something to substantiate that claim, as I understood that the Noldor were pardoned after the War of Wrath with the possible exception of Maglor. I thought that the Noldor who remained in Middle-Earth did so by choice, not for lack of pardon.

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Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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Date: Oct 24, 2006
 Have you tried looking in UT?

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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LoL Yes, but in UT, it states that the story of Galadriel was never finished. UT is not consistent about Galadriel in regard to the Silmarillion.

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Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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In that case then, i think it says that the noldor were allowed to go back to the blessed relm, but galadriel proudly denied it.

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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That is the gist of this thread. I don't believe that Galadriel was trying to be pardoned by the Valar since she and the Noldor had already been pardoned, though many of them loved Middle-Earth or enjoyed ruling a realm within the world and so they chose to remain.

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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
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Celethil, perhaps in The Road Goes Ever On (published by Tolkien himself) ... 



'The question sí man i yulma nin enquantuva? and the question at the end of her song (Vol. I, p. 389), What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?, refer to the special position of Galadriel. She was the last survivor of the princes and queens who had led the revolting Noldor to exile in Middle-earth. After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so. She passed over the Mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion.' JRRT The Road Goes Ever On 


And in 1967 (the following seems to go with the idea expressed above) Tolkien wrote: 'The Exiles were allowed to return -- save for a few chief actors in the rebellion of whom at the time of the L. R. only Galadriel remained.' JRRT Letters



 



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Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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Thank your for clearing that up Galin, and welcome to the forum. I would suggest introducing yourself.



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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Thank you Galin, though the quote you supplied seems to add to the mystery in my head. I'm assuming the Valar imposed the ban, though the quote you supplied states Galadriel's response, not the reason for the ban.

In Tolkien's later writings Galadriel is extremely opposed to the designs and plans of Feanor, so I am not sure why she is being held responsible, especially since the chief dissenters were all killed before the War of Wrath.


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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
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I guess because she was a 'chief actor' in the Rebellion in some way. Tolkien didn't publish a lot of details on the matter, though again, the description in RGEO (what there is of it anyway), was published by the author himself at least.


In some writings (ultimately made public by Christopher Tolkien of course) JRRT appears to want to distance Galadriel from being a chief actor, but these, in any case, did not pass the same 'test' as the information in The Lord of the Rings or The Road Goes Ever On. Just to note, Tolkien did not always remember everything he had published. And he did revise some things already in print too -- when copyright concerns gave him the chance.





-- Edited by Galin at 17:20, 2006-11-14

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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very interesting quote there Galin
I'd say the whole mystery surrounding the real past of Galadriel is due to the fact that Tolkien never finished working on this subject.
It was however, as CT mentions in UT, one of the last topics he worked on before he died. Unfortunately he never had the chance to give us a perhaps more clear idea of Galadriel's past, and the influence it had on her present. So I would say that it is another question left unanswered.

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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
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Date: 13 days ago

 

I've been meaning to get back to this since 2006 . . .

. . . anyway I can't quite agree that this particular aspect of Galadriel's history remains unclear. For me, texts and descriptions published by the author himself take precedence, and The Road Goes Ever On is quite clear that Galadriel was banned for her role in the Rebellion. On a related note, Tolkien himself also published (in Fellowship of the Ring) Galadriel saying -- after she rejects the One -- that she will diminish and pass into the West, that is, seemingly as if there is no ban . . .

 

 . . . but I think when struggling with the two author published texts, for me, RGEO must still come out on top here, as again, it's clear regarding the matter, and thus I look for interpretations of Galadriel's words to fit the specific statement of a ban existing.

With respect to the possible reasons for Galadriel's ban, it depends upon one's use of canon beyond RGEO. Here's a bit of a list based on the external timeline:

 

 

 

I agree with, and adopt, the early 1950s scenario -- the words of Feanor had kindled Galadriel's heart: "for she yearned to see the wide unguarded lands and to rule there a realm of her own will"

Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn briefly notes that she had been "eager to adventure there"

In the much later Shibboleth of Feanor account, Galadriel's reasons are still "she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage" . . . and pride influences her decision to keep on with the Rebellion, plus a burning desire to thwart Feanor -- yet in this version Galadriel fights in defense of the Teleri (not present in the 1950s scenario in my opinion), and here, in contradiction to already published text (RGEO), she "refused the pardon the Valar" . . . also, this text goes on to suggest, at least in my opinion, that "all that she had desired in her youth came to hand" -- being the Ring of Power and the dominion of Middle-earth -- "of which she had dreamed"

Her dreams had included the dominion of Middle-earth? That's quite the "realm" of her own!

For myself, I think that's a bit much even for the young Galadriel. Granted, after the One was made, Nerwen does admit (to Frodo) that she greatly desired to ask for the One, and for long years had pondered what she might do with it . . . but I don't see that as necessarily disagreeing with her original designs as described in other texts.

In the very late adumbrated tale Galadriel wished to depart from Valinor "and to go into the wide world of Middle-earth for the exercise of her talents" as she felt confined in the tutelage of Aman, although this is couched in an account that, yet again, steps on already published text, as Galadriel here is not even part of the Rebellion!

 

 

 

Thus, even in the text where Galadriel wants to thwart Feanor, she also has dreams of her own, and her pride is involved with respect to continuing on with the rebellion. Celethil's point above about wondering why Nerwen would be banned in this scenario seems to be answered by JRRT: here she doesn't seem to be banned! And refuses the pardon of the Valar!

 

But again, a refusal of a pardon contradicts history that Tolkien himself had already published, and in my opinion, there's still enough in this scenario to consider Galadriel a "chief actor" in the rebellion, especially if she takes a leading role after Feanor departs with the ships -- which she does in the early 1950s scenario.


Another reason I adopt the early 1950s scenario is not only that if fits well enough with RGEO, but it was written in the same general phase of Galadriel's chat with Melian and the Finarfinian reaction to Thingol in Doriath -- meaning that, it's my belief that these scenes were written within the concept of the Finarfinians not being involved in the kinslaying in any measure, not even in defense of the Teleri.

They simply arrived too late, as appears to be the case before the introduction of Galadriel.

 

 

 

Although, perhaps I am "too late" with this post as well  wink



-- Edited by Galin on Thursday 15th of October 2020 09:03:54 PM

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