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Topic: Celebrity DEATHMATCH

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Nov 30, 2006
RE: Celebrity DEATHMATCH

Gandalf against Glorfindel? That is interesting.


Assuming they are both in peak health  and forgetting about the Ring I would say Gandalf would win. Why? Well becuase although both died fighting there balrogs I would say Gandalf was in a worse state as he himself says he was already very weary. Plus given the fact that Gandalf's balrog was more at home in Moria in the pits, than Glorfindel's balrog was on the cliff I think Gandalf fought a balrog with more advantage, whilst he was at a disadvantage.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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still, we are talking about the scenario I created...
I would be however interested to see your opinion on another possible scenario Glorfindel1235

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Ok to make this one a bit more interesting:


Gandalf, Durin's Bane, Sauron, Shelob and Saruman.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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well...this is indeed very interesting mouthofsauron, bery interesting indeed...
anyway, I'll divide this post in 2 parts: 1- the fight if they just "happen" to meet somewhere on a terrain that doesn't advantage or disadvantage anyone and 2- if they meet in the plausable scenario I thought of
1. If the just meet somewhere, it is clear they will start fighting soon. Firstly, as far as alliances are concerned it is clear it will be a 4 against 1 fight.
Saruman is far too afraid of the others to repent any help Gandalf, and he knows that if he doesn't help Sauron he will die because of his treason. Sauron doesn't like Saruman, but he knows he can use him for the time, so he agrees. Shelob doesn't serve anyone, as mentioned in LOTR, not even Sauron, but she will probably ally herself with the Dark Lord, at least because of the fact he keeps her well fed with Orcs. Durin's Bane knows Sauron from the First Age, and even though he doesn't serve him, he would surely ally with him.
So firstly, Gandalf, after a few attacks on Saruman is killed by the other 4.
Now the 4 split in 2 pairs fighting each other.
Now that Gandalf is dead, Durin's Bane starts fighting Shelob, because of the old feud of Ungoliant and the Balrogs. Shelob stings him, but as a spirit of fire he is not easily affected by her poison, and given her weak spot (soft belly) he manages to kill Shelob.
On the other side, now that Gandalf is dead, Sauron no longer needs Saruman, so he quickly kills him because of his treason.
So we have Sauron and Durin's Bane left, both with just a few scratches from the previous fighting. They start to fight, and Sauron is killed by Durin's Bane, or kills him instead...this is why:
There is a passage in the Sil I believe, where Tolkien says something like...Manwe sent Eonwe, an equal to Melkor in the War of Wrath, so he will clearly send a spirit equal to Sauron (meaning Olorin) to ME
So clearly the poqer of Gandalf and Sauron was comparable. And as Gandalf managed to kill Durin's Bane, Sauron should theoretically do the same...but only if he has the Ring.
If he lacks the Ring a large part of his power is missing, and I believe he would be defeated.
I'll make a new post for the other scenarion soon.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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I will give my account.


Lets say that Saruman is the 'Good' Sarumen - before he was corrupted.


Now I believe the wizards would obviously pair up together.


Now Durin's Bane and Sauron pair up together also.


Lastly Shelob remains on her own, unwilling to side with one or the other until she see's who looks the strongest in battle.


Ok Gandalf attacks Sauron straight off and is brought to the ground by a spell of enchantment from Sauron. Just then Sauron weilds his mace, intending to finish Gandalf quick but Saruman manages to fire a blast of lightning at Sauron who then stumbles to the ground. Gandalf then seiges his chance and and thrusts glamdring into the helm of Sauron who then is vanquished.
Sarumen however being firstly occupied with Sauron is unaware of the great wip of Fire of the Balrog aimed at him. It smites him to his death.


Now Gandalf remains to duel with the Balrog. As there does not appear to be any prevailing force Shelob charges at them both and brings down gandalf. Then Durin's bane weilds his Flame-sword and cleaves's Gandalfs head usunder.


Next Shelob and the Balrog duel, but the Balrog is greatly weakened by his previous battle.
Shelob dodges his wip and begins to spin a vast net around the battle field, slowly closing in the balrog. But the Balrog releases all the heat within him and spites Shelob with a scourching breath. Thus Shelob falls to the ground and the balrog raises his sword and stabs her in her soft belly. But in doing so his arm touches the lethal Sting on the back of Shelob and falls to the ground dead.


Thus - there is no victor.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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the account is plausable, but I totally disagree with the end
and this is not even a debatable matter - we clearly know what the effect of her poison is - it makes the victim become unconcious, and wake up a few hours later...
if that would happen in your story, the balrog could at best wake up some time later to find all others dead...still, I very much doubt that the effect of her poison on balrogs can be compared with that on hobbits...

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Yes indeed it is only powerful enough to knock you out. But after having a long grawling battle with Gandalf perhaps the Balrog was already on its way before it even took the poison. Perhaps the poison simply finished him off...

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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as I said, I doubt that is possbile
anyway, as far as my own scenarion is concerned here is the idea:
Gandalf does take the Ring from Frodo when he offers it to him in, and just as he predicted in LOTR, he becomes much like Sauron and the Ring gets much power through him.
Sauron knows that Gandalf will soon come to challenge. He already lost control of the Nazgul which serve the Ring, and have deserted Sauron. The Dark Lord manages to get Saruman on his side, but Saruman refuses and openly admits his treason, saying he will join Gandalf because he is the stronger one.
Sauron makes an appeal to Shelob and Durin's Bane to unite and help him defeat Gandalf, as he knows this would be his only chance.
Gandalf accepts Saruman's apologies, and allows him to join him. Together, they travel to the Black Gate and challenge Sauron. He comes forth, joined by Shelob and the Balrog.
In the battle that follows, Gandalf and Saruman manage to win, using the power of the Ring. But Gandalf is changed now and without hesitation kills the other Istar, and becomes the head of the order.
Result: Gandalf wins andtakes control of Middle-earth, and all Istari eventually fail.

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Ooooooooh This is a GOOD one.

Sorry it took me so long to jump in.....

Hmmmmm Sauron, Saruman, Gandalf, Shelob, and Durins Bane. The Maiar and a Spider.

Gandalf convinces Saruman that they must join forces if there is any chance of survival as they arrive on the field of battle. Sauron commands Durin's Bane and Shelob through fear of his might. As the battle ensues, Gandalf vies with Sauron and Saruman with the Balrog. Saruman betrays Gandalf at the proper moment as all 4 destroy him.

Shelob is terrified of the others and seeks easy prey, stabbing Saruman in the back as Gandalf is vanquished. Saruman turns to smite her and is killed by the Balrog as Sauron laughs.

The remaining three face one another and Shelob is destroyed by Sauron as she tries to flee, leaving Sauron to contend with Durin's Bane. Without the ring Sauron lacks the might to overcome his foe and is eventually thrown down. Durin's Bane claims victory only to find years later that Sauron is reformed because the ring still exists.

The saga continues....








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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Dec 13, 2006
nice ending...so I guess in the end Sauron does win...


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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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I told you it was a good mix of combatants. Sauron is effectively the victor.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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anyway, it seems that my first scenario and yours have in the end the same ending and the same last 2 left standing, even though the fight goes a little bit differently...I for one totally disagree with the idea of Saruman joining Gandalf.
If there would be no real opportunistic reason for doing this, for example Gandalf being in possesion of the Ring in my second scenario, I doubt Saruman would ever make such a choice. His fear would be ultimately too great, and he would soon realise that alongside Gandalf there would be no hope. He did not repent as things looked much, much brighter for him, for example after his defeat during the War of the Ring, so I am sure he would not repent if he had to face 3 of ME's most powerful creatures. Saruman always used the situation to his advantage: when he wanted the Council not to find out about Sauron he postponed the attack on Dol Guldur, afterwards when he knew the Ring was no longer near the Gladden he allowed an attack, he tried to use his alliance with Sauron to his own advantage. Clearly, he would do what is best for him, and in this case it's allying with the bad guys.

-- Edited by The Might at 23:29, 2006-12-13

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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What about:

Turin, Feanor, Fingolfin, Earendil (without the ship) and Hurin...



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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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I think Hurin and Turin would team up and Earendil and Fingolfin would. Feanor would be alone.

Hurin would face Fingolfin and would battle ceaselessly for many hours until at last, being the quicker of the two Fingolfin prevails.
Turin would face Earendil and would slay him for he is the better fighter.
Then Turin would face Fingolfin but becuase Fingolfin had the harder fight at first, he would be more wearied and Turin would manage to strike him down before he managed to dodge Turin's blade.

Then Turin would fight Feanor and becuase Feanor has had no fights and has superior armour from Valinor he would slay Turin Turambar and claim victory.

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Chief Maiar
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Well, here goes, after a long time. The great triangle:

Aragorn
Arwen
Elrond

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Oh...this is such a hard one...
I could imagine that Elrond might fight Aragorn to make sure he can't marry his daughter and make her mortal.
I think a direct fight between Aragorn and Elron would start, and that Elrond's experience would give him an advantage. Aragorn would be close to death, but Arwen would try to stop her father and kill him to save Aragorn, knowing that he can be reincarnated and is not dead forever. Then the 2 would live happily.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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We cannot have two winners TM. There has to be an overall winner.

I think Elrond and Aragorn would fight. They are pretty equal and the winner would be decided by whoever Arwen chooses to fight against. I will leave that descion up to you.biggrin.gif

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Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
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I have to agree on the draw betwen A&E With the edge going to Aragorn if he had Anduril, having seen Aragorn stand over her dead father Arwen kills Aragorn?

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Hmmm... why would Anduril in any way help him?
I believe your views may be a bit biased by the properties of the Rings, enhancing their bearers' power. But Anduril was actually nothing special. Of course it was a good sword, but there were better ones probably.
The only thing it really was good at was summoning the dead. Except that any other sword just as good would have been the same.

Elrond was after all a very skilled warrior and given his experience and Elvish powers as opposed to Aragorn's respectable, but yet still only human strength Elrond would probably win.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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I can't agree that Anduril/Narsil was 'only a good sword'. When Elendil weilded Narcil it drove fear into friend and foe alike and men feared to look upon him. This sword and the spear of Gil-Galad were the legendary weapons of the Last Alliance.

Plus given that Narcil cut off the Ring and ever after had a hold of fear over Sauron, plus it was forged by a great smith, I think Anduril would indeed have been a mighty weapon.

BUT Elrond was a mighty warrior also, and being an Elf may well have had even greater skill over his own body than Aragorn had of his. Plus given the regenative powers of the Elves maybe Elrond could have swung a victory.

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Slaves of Udun - Rank 1
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Weapons aside, I think Elrond would win having elvish skill and more battle experiance, then Arwen striken with grief over Aragorns death would commit suicide, leaving Elrond the winner but also the loser as he would lose his daughter



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Ok, enough with all this Elvishness...lol
New people: Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, Saruman and Beorn

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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I guess the hobbit is out, takes one look at Beorn in bear shape and runs back to the Shire...

I can't see how Beorn could beat Saruman though.

Saruman the victor!

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Slaves of Udun - Rank 1
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I agree Saruman would definetly win, i dont think there could be another outcome. so here is another one

 Balrog of Moria, Smaug and Turin

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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That is a difficult one. Assuming they are all taken at face value with no 'fate' helping them, then I guess It would be the Balrog winning against Smaug (who flies away in cowardice) and then the Balrog destroying Turin. Turin only managed to kill Glaurung by a sneaky shot in the dark when the Dragon didn't even know he was there.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Well, I must agree with mos here. Smaug was a strong dragon, but from seeing how he acts in the Hobbit I doubt he could really stand up to the challenge of facing a Balrog and would either quickly perish or would flee far away.
The only reason he attempted to attack dwarves in the first place was for the treasure. So unless he could get some great treasure out of this battle he would probably flee.
Turin as brave as he is cannot win against the balrog. I mean, Gandalf died after succeeding this and Turin is no Maia.

So no matter what exactly happens to Smaug or Turin one thing remains clear - the balrog wins!

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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No idea why it would be assumed that Ungoliant would be so easy for Glaurung or Gothmog.

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Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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i may be kicking a dead horse here by posting on this thread. but this was a favorite of mine last time around on this site sooo... Aragorn, Legolas, Beorn, and Gimli



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Hobbits of The Shire - Rank 1
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Aragorn summons his armies from Gondor and beats them all :P

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Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Haha that's pretty good. Id say aragorn, gimli and legolas couldn't bare to harm one another and are killed by beorn
Winner=Beorn!

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Actually I think its a litte farfetched to say that beorn would defeat all three. Maybe legolas shoots hime from afar but gimli rushes in with his axe and conflicts some damage but is then killed by beorn. Aragorn and legolas both atack beorn head on and in such close quarters legolas is hit with blow from aragorn who then kills beorn in just enough time to hear legolas's dying words... probable something along the lines of "all is well my king..."

Winner = Aragorn

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Hobbits of The Shire - Rank 1
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Ya that sounds most likely, The three would definitely team up to beat Beorn. It would definitely be between Legolas and Aragorn

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Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Now if they did take down Beorn without any losses or injuries between the three of them, who would win in that conflict? Id say that aragorn still has more fighting experience and he would be the victor

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Hobbits of The Shire - Rank 1
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Ya, unless Legolas kept his distance and just shot arrows at him. Plus elves are less mortal and vulnerable to injuries than men. It'd be close but I think Aragorn would eventually win

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Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Legolas maybe from a distance but I think we can agree gimli would be the underdog

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Hobbits of The Shire - Rank 1
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Ya lol poor Gimli

How about Merry and Pippin Vs. Frodo and Sam

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Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Hmm I have the impression that merry and pippin were beter fighters the frodo and sam. I thought I read somewhere that merry and pip were of greater stature then most hobits so I think they have an advantage in this one

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Hobbits of The Shire - Rank 1
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Oh ya that's true, because of the Ent draught

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Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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That was it yes. Wow I need to re-read th LotR's.. btw I believe the rule of this game is to make a new deathmatch only after four or more opinions are givin for the existing match

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Hobbits of The Shire - Rank 1
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good catch. Merry and Pippin (We'll Merry at least) did more fighting, but if Frodo used the ring they would be goners. And a little bit of Mithril never hurts. In Moria Sam did take out an Orc, I think, plus he messed up Shelob pretty good. We may never know.

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