Tolkien Forums

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Tolkien Forums → The Dark Realms → Grond carriers!
 

Topic: Grond carriers!

Post Info
Gothmog
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 306
Date: Oct 9, 2006
Grond carriers!
Permalink  

Does anyone know what carried Grond all the way from Mordor to Minis-Tirith!



__________________
The Might
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: Oct 9, 2006
Permalink  
"Great beasts drew it, Orcs surrounded it, and behind walked mountain-trolls to wield it."
(ROTK)

In the movie the great beasts are represented as huge buffalo or cow-like creatures.

__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
mouth of sauron
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2372
Date: Oct 9, 2006
Permalink  

I have always wondered what these 'Great beasts' were. It appears to me that Tolkien left many things unamed in the Lotr whilst he named virtually everything in The Silmarillion.


 



__________________
My Master Sauron the Great bids thee Welcome....
Gothmog
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 306
Date: Oct 12, 2006
Permalink  
I've also noticed this MoS.

__________________
Olorin/Gandalf
Chief Maiar
Status: Offline
Posts: 375
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
I never really knew that they used Grond to attack MT... I always though the thing i see in the movies is a ram-like thing (however it seems to make me understand the "Omg" face on Gandalf when he see's it in the movie...). However, if that is Grond, can you tell me how Sauron layed his hands on it?

__________________

...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.
ArwenLegolas
Tom Bombadil
Status: Offline
Posts: 1886
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
It looks to me, in the Movie, that it was forged in Barad-dûr, maybe in the same place the ring was made, only in the lower caverns of it. That thing was tough and heavy. It would make sense since the doors of Minas Tirith was strong as well. And to make it into a wolf 's head, it had to be melded or carved. I bet a lot of orcs bought it coming to close to the fire to make it.

-- Edited by ArwenLegolas at 18:04, 2007-05-03

__________________

Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!
The Might
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
It is hard to say where it came from, it could well be that it had been manufactured somewhere further east.
If you ask me, I would say it's Dwarves that did it.
There are 4 more houses that are not accounted for in the West and it is clearly specified in Tolkien's works that not all Dwarves are good. I find it very likely that tempted with riches, they allied with him and aided him how they could. Since the Dwarvish population was decreasing everywhere they didn't send any soldiers, but on the other hand made that up as smiths.
Of course it is only a theory, but to me it makes sense.

__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Bilbo Baggins
Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
Status: Offline
Posts: 1109
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
Dwarves in Mordor forging Grond? I know there were over the course of the ages some evil Dwarves but I can't imagine actually working in Mordor. I thought they were more likely to do work from afar and then send it or give soldiers for battle.

__________________
You want it for Yourself!
The Might
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
Not necessarily doing all the work themselves, but I can imagine them giving indications and advices
Yes, you're right there, but imagine how long it would take and how hard it would be to transport Grond...

EDIT: Yay! ²8o0 !evileye

-- Edited by The Might at 19:26, 2007-05-03

__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Olorin/Gandalf
Chief Maiar
Status: Offline
Posts: 375
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
The name just made me think about something: are there any notes about what happened to Morgoth's Grond after the War of Wrath?

Congrats on 2800!

-- Edited by Olorin/Gandalf at 20:02, 2007-05-03

__________________

...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.
ArwenLegolas
Tom Bombadil
Status: Offline
Posts: 1886
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
Yes, congratulations on passing 2800. And it would be interesting to find out what happened to Grond after the war. Maybe the Orcs left it when they all got destroyed by the King of the dead and his troups. Where else would it be but in MT? There was nobody left of the enemy to carry it away.

__________________

Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!
The Might
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
I believe that Olorin was referring to the original item carrying that name, Melkor's mighty mace
It is most likely that Grond lied somewhere on the bottom of the sea, together with the rest of the remains of Beleriand and Angband; I doubt there is any connection more then the name itself between the 2 items.
And yes, about the second one, I also believe it would be somewhere before the gates. The charge of Theoden won them the gate, and so all around Grond were scattered away. It might have been kept in remembrance, or, as it seems more likely to me, melted and used anew.

__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Olorin/Gandalf
Chief Maiar
Status: Offline
Posts: 375
Date: May 3, 2007
Permalink  
Yes, i was thinking about the hammer/mace. Thanks for the answer!
Why i really asked was 'cause i wanted to know whether the valar took it with them or not...
*Wonders what Melkor used at dagor Dagorlath biggrin.gif*

-- Edited by Olorin/Gandalf at 21:45, 2007-05-03

__________________

...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.
ArwenLegolas
Tom Bombadil
Status: Offline
Posts: 1886
Date: May 4, 2007
Permalink  
Oh, ok. The one that Morgoth carried when he slew Fingolfin before the gates of Angband.

__________________

Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!
Glorfindel
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: May 7, 2007
Permalink  
Olorin/Gandalf wrote:
Yes, i was thinking about the hammer/mace. Thanks for the answer!
Why i really asked was 'cause i wanted to know whether the valar took it with them or not...
*Wonders what Melkor used at Dagor Dagorath biggrin.gif*
Well if Morgoth brings Sauron and his other evil minions back to life at the Dagor Dagorath then I doubt a mace would be too much of a problem.



__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!
Iarwain Ben adar
Peoples of Beleriand - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 15
Date: Jun 4, 2007
Permalink  
The grond that was used to batter down the gate of Minas Tirith can't have been Morgoths weapon. I think that is must have been forged by Sauron. A big clue is that the weapon is shaped like a wolf's head. Wasn't Sauron Lord of Werewolves? I remember that being mentioned about him in The Silmarillion i think.

I'm nt sure who or what the weapon was forged by so i won't comment on it.

__________________

... and he drew his sword Ringil, that glittered like ice.
mouth of sauron
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2372
Date: Jun 4, 2007
Permalink  
As already discussed the Battering ram was named after Morgoth's mace of old.

The battering ram was forged in the deep pits of Mordor and was weilded by trolls.

__________________
My Master Sauron the Great bids thee Welcome....
kinganarion
Men of Numenor - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 10
Date: Jun 21, 2007
Permalink  
the weapon saron used in the seaconed(way off) age be grond. the hammer of the underworld

__________________
Minas Tirith
City of Kings
Bilbo Baggins
Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
Status: Offline
Posts: 1109
Date: Jun 22, 2007
Permalink  
Sauron never had a weapon called Grond. Morgoth did. Sauron had a great battering ram built in the late Third Age to use against Minas Tirith and named it after Morgoth's weapon of old.

__________________
You want it for Yourself!
Erasmus Folly
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Date: Jul 1, 2007
Permalink  

Grond

Battering ram used by Sauron's forces during the Siege of Gondor. Grond was 100 feet long. Its head was made of black steel and was shaped like a ravening wolf. Grond was hung from large engines of war by mighty chains. It was pulled by Great Beasts and wielded by Mountain-trolls. The massive battering ram had been forged in the smithies of Mordor and spells of ruin were laid on it.

Before dawn on March 15, 3019, Grond was pulled across the Pelennor Fields to the Great Gate of Minas Tirith. The Trolls swung Grond against the iron doors but they withstood the blow. Then the Witch-king cried words of terror and power in an ancient tongue three times, and each time Grond was hurled against the Gate. The third time, Grond crashed through the Gate with a flash of light and the doors split asunder and fell to the ground in pieces.

Names & Etymology:
Grond was named after the Hammer of the Underworld, the mace which Morgoth used in his battle with Fingolfin. The word grond means "club" in Sindarin from runda meaning "a rough piece of wood."

Sources:
The Return of the King: "The Siege of Gondor," p. 102
The Silmarillion: "Of the Ruin of Beleriand," p. 154
The History of Middle-earth, vol. V, The Lost Road and Other Writings: "The Etymologies," entry for RUD



Quoted from The Thain's Book



-- Edited by Erasmus Folly at 11:17, 2007-07-01

__________________
treesofvalar21
Men of Numenor - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 11
Date: Jul 9, 2007
Permalink  

Erasmus Folly, good show very well put.  It had no connection to Mongroths mce, it was simply named after it.



__________________
 
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
 
Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard