The greatest minstrel ever? Though he be a negative character?
I would confidently claim that the most talented rhapsods were born in the Vanyarin society. But could their lamentations ever outdo those of their Grey-elven counterpart [and the Noldorin prince reffered to as equally good] whose actual sufferance reached Aman as mere distant echo, no matter how detailed?
Do you think Daeron's love was pure? He was sooner jealous, twice a traitor. But his emotion did give birth to all too touching lyrical wailing. I need to know in what degree he was desperate, mad with love, and in what -- evil.
umm...this is an interesting subject but I am afraid I know very little about it all I know is that he devised the runes to represent words in Sindarin which were then used by Elves and mostly by Dwarves... perhaps you could give us some more information about Daeron...
Daeron is somewhat marginal. He did devise the runes. But he in addition played a more or less significant role in "Of Beren and Luthien". Perhaps you would prefer to find out yourselves. Or, then again, not, since he is only mentioned in two or three paragraphs.
I just thought to give the quotes reffering to Daeron so you don't have to search so much:
"Of the long years of peace that followed after the coming of Denethor there is little tale. In those days, it is said, Daeron the Minstrel, chief loremaster of the kingdom of Thingol, devised his Runes; and the Naugrim that came to Thingol learned them, and were well-pleased with the device, esteeming Daeron's skill higher than did the Sindar, his own people."
"There came even Green-elves from Ossiriand, the Land of Seven Rivers, far off under the walls of the Blue Mountains; but out of Doriath there came but two messengers, Mablung and Daeron, bearing greetings from the King."
"But Daeron the minstrel also loved Lúthien, and he espied her meetings with Beren, and betrayed them to Thingol."
"Then Lúthien, perceiving that no help would come from any other on earth, resolved to fly from Doriath and come herself to him; but she sought the aid of Daeron, and he betrayed her purpose because he would not deprive Lúthien of the lights of heaven, lest she fail and fade, and yet would restrain her, he caused a house to be built from which she should not escape."
"Upon Doriath evil days had fallen. Grief and silence had come upon all its people when Lúthien was lost. Long they had sought for her in vain. And it is told that in that time Daeron the minstrel of Thingol strayed from the land, and was seen no more. He it was that made music for the dance and song of Lúthien, before Beren came to Doriath; and he had loved her, and set all his thought of her in his music. He became the greatest of all the minstrels of the Elves east of the Sea, named even before Maglor son of Fëanor. But seeking for Lúthien in despair he wandered upon strange paths, and passing over the mountains he came into the East of Middle-earth, where for many ages he made lament beside dark waters for Lúthien, daughter of Thingol, most beautiful of all living things."
And I guess that Daeron's character is pretty much summoned up by Tolkien in the Index of Names from The Silmarillion:
Daeron Minstrel and chief loremaster of King Thingol; deviser of the Cirth (Runes); enamoured of Lúthien and twice betrayed her.
So...I guess I now understand what Elvish Avantguardian meant. But unfortunately...I don't know anything about Daeron...for the simple reason that no more information exists. I must agree, that even though he was the greatest minstrel ever, he is indeed marginal...unfortunately. And in the same time I must agree...Daeron's intense feelings for Luthien did probably give a special touch to his creations, which made him become the greatest minstrel ever. And...about the evil part...I don't know. The problem is we know only very little... But if I judge by the information that we do have, I would personally say that he never wanted anything else but Luthien to be safe...safe together with him. He probably realised that if Luthien followed Beren it would also bring her death. And, of course one could speculate that Daeron did perhaps think that Luthien might wish to join Beren in death, and perhaps even beyond it. So if she gave up her life as an Elf and became human, there would be no chance left for Daeron, not in life, nor in death to meet Luthien. Even though he did betray Luthien twice he hoped that in this way he would help her...help her stay away from danger, and away from the one she loved. Still...I wouldn't call him evil...he for example never attempted to kill Beren even though he did probably hate him... Daeron was just a tragical figure that, even though was the greatest minstrel ever, couldn't compete with Beren...and that had to resort to betrayal in order ot perhaps have a good chance to be together with Luthien.
interesting Celethil perhaps Tolkien was intending to transform the love of Daeron for Luthien from a romantical, intimate one into a platonic, brother-sister love. So maybe Daeron would have tried to get rid of Beren in order to protect his sister still, I won't go further speculating until someone can find some information on this.
[quote=The complete Tolkien companion]Daeron = a grey elf of the First Age; according to Elvish tradition, the minstrel and loremaster of Thingol King of Doriath. He is a shadowy figure (his name actually means 'shadowy', or perhaps 'hidden') on the boarders of several tales of those days, chiefly that of Beren and Luthien. Daeron is said to have loved Luthien, and to have twice betrayed her to her father in in the matter of Beren od the Edain. The minstral afterwards went away into the east and became lost to the knowledge of elves
from the quote above, it appears that he truely did love Luthien, and would do anything to protect her, even if it hurt him to do it. So i don't think that he was evil, just conserned for a elves safety.
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I still find it odd why Tolkien chose for an Elf-servant of Thingol to surpass one of the sons of mighty Feanor in terms of music. Anyway I wonder if there is any mention of when Daeron perished?
No there is not. As much as I appreciate you taking your time to give us this excerpt ArwenLegolas, I would like to kindly ask not to re-post information which already was posted in a particular thread before.
