Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
 

Topic: Rhun

Post Info
Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 377
Date: Aug 25, 2011
Rhun

I was curious if anyone new some information on the people of Rhun? Any key characters or the traditions or stands on the war of the rings? This may be an obvious question but I'm a little forgetfull and would love a refreshment course :)

__________________
But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2960
Date: Aug 25, 2011

Huan,
There is not  alot out there about Rhun.  Here is a taste garnerd through Google.

"In the fictional world of Middle-earth created by J. R. R. Tolkien, Rhûn was a large region of eastern Middle-earth. Rhûn (which is also the Elvish word for "east") was the name used for all lands lying east of Rhovanion, around and beyond the inland Sea of Rhûn, whence came many attacks on Gondor and its allies during the Third Age of Middle-earth.

Almost nothing can be known of the lands beyond the Sea of Rhûn from Tolkien's written work, though it is vaguely described in The Fellowship of the Ring as a realm of "wide uncharted lands, nameless plains, and forests unexplored". The wizard Gandalf had never explored these lands, and though Aragorn is said to have travelled to them, there is no report of what he did while there.

Rhûn's ancient geography can be gleaned a little from The Silmarillion; throughout most of the First Age the vast Sea of Helcar was located there and beyond that the Orocarni ('red mountains'). Somewhere in the east, too, lay Cuiviénen and Hildórien, where Elves and Men first awoke: all the Children of Ilúvatar could trace their ancestries back to the eastward regions of Middle-earth.

Rhûn was the domain of the Easterlings, Men of Darkness who were ready to follow both the Dark Lords and fought as their allies in war. These lands, too, were peopled by lost Elves, Avari and Úmanyar, and by four of the seven clans of the Dwarves.

During the Third Age, Rhûn was visited by three Wizards; Saruman, Alatar and Pallando, and though Saruman returned into the west, the two Blue Wizards remained or went to the south to the lands of Khand and beyond. Sauron himself journeyed into the eastward lands, hiding there from the White Council during the centuries known in the west as the Watchful Peace. He seems to have had a second fortress somewhere in Rhûn where he dwelt during that time and earlier during the Second Age, as his original realms were in the East, not in Mordor.  This eastern abode of the Dark Lord is briefly noted in The Silmarillion as a place which he surrounded with fire.

Dorwinion lay on the west side of the Sea of Rhûn. The Easterlings of the Balchoth and Wainriders mostly occupied the lands to the far east of the Sea of Rhûn, where they lived on the nomadic steppes." ( With Thanks from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Rhûn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rh%C3%BBn)

I think it may be a wonderful place for a fan story or role play ...



__________________

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit
Called or uncalled, God is present

Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 377
Date: Aug 25, 2011
You again read my mind bear :) I'm trying to get a little information about the place first and then I'll be off with it

__________________
But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2960
Date: Aug 25, 2011

Huan,
Here is a little more ~ (redundant too) from The Tolkien Gateway.

"Rhûn refers to the little-known lands to the east of Middle-earth inhabited by peoples known as the "Easterlings", from whom many attacks on Gondor and its allies came during the Third Age.

Almost nothing of the lands beyond the great Sea of Rhûn is known
Far beyond the Sea of Rhûn was another inland sea, the Sea of Helcar, and beyond that the range of Orocarni, the Red Mountains. Somewhere in the lost east, too, lay Cuiviénen and Hildórien, where Elves and Men first awoke: all the Children of Ilúvatar could trace their ancestries back to the eastward regions of Middle-earth. We know also that it was a wide and vast land with many kingdoms, and strange and unexplored places.

Rhûn was the domain of the Easterlings, Men of Darkness who were ready to follow both the Dark Lords and fought as their allies in war. These lands, too, were peopled by lost Elves, Avari and Úmanyar, and by four of the seven clans of the Dwarves who dwelt in the Orocarni.

During the Third Age, Rhûn was visited by three Wizards; Saruman, Rómestámo and Morinehtar, and though Saruman returned into the west, the two Blue Wizards remained. Even Gandalf had never explored there, and though Aragorn had travelled there, he never reported of his doings.

Sauron himself journeyed into the eastward lands, in hiding from the White Council during the centuries of the Watchful Peace.
Rhûn was conquered by Gondor twice: under the Kings Rómendacil I and Rómendacil II, but the Númenóreans never had full control over it. Rhûn was finally subdued in the Fourth Age under King Elessar and his son Eldarion.

Geography of  Rhûn
The western part of Rhûn is shown on the Lord of the Rings map. It contains the great Sea of Rhûn, connected with three rivers, one northeast, a part of River Running, one northwest and one running south to Mordor. It also shows a small mountain range southeast of the sea and a forest northwest of it. Northwest of the Sea of Rhûn lays also the land of Dorwinion.

The inland Sea of Rhûn was located in western Rhûn on the border between Rhûn and Wilderland. There were mountains on the southwest side of the Sea of Rhûn and a forest on the northeast side. Wild white Kine of Araw, or oxen, lived near the shores of the Sea of Rhûn.

Rhûn's ancient geography can be gleaned a little from The Silmarillion; throughout most of the First Age the vast Sea of Helcar was located there and beyond that the Orocarni ('red mountains'). (Thanks from the Tolkien Gateway  ~ http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Rh%C3%BBn)

Most other stuff I found just repeats the last two posts.



__________________

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit
Called or uncalled, God is present

Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2960
Date: Aug 25, 2011

Haun,
And last but not least my favorite resource ... "The Thain's Book" ... an amazing site so very well done!!!

"Rhun was the name of the uncharted lands in far eastern Middle-earth. A race of Men called the Easterlings lived in Rhun. The Easterlings fell under the influence of first Morgoth and then Sauron, and they were enemies of the Men of western Middle-earth throughout the Ages.
Little is known about the geography of Rhun. Only the western edge of Rhun appears on the map of Middle-earth in the Third Age. Rhun was bordered on the west by Wilderland and Mordor. Khand was located south of Rhun, and farther south was Harad.
The inland Sea of Rhun was located in western Rhun on the border between Rhun and Wilderland. There were mountains on the southwest side of the Sea of Rhun and a forest on the northeast side. Wild white kine, or oxen, lived near the shores of the Sea of Rhun.
A map of Middle-earth in ancient times shows a great mountain range in the far east called the Red Mountains, or Orocarni, also known as the Mountains of the East. The eastern shore of a large inland sea called the Sea of Helcar was at the foot of these mountains. In later years, the world changed, and it is not known whether the Red Mountains and the Sea of Helcar still existed. One source (HoME XI, p. 174) speculates that the Sea of Rhun might be a remnant of the larger Sea of Helcar.
Many of the peoples of Middle-earth originated in the East. The Elves first awoke on the eastern shore of the Sea of Helcar by a bay called Cuivienen. From there many Elves began the Great Journey westward, but some remained behind in the eastern lands.
Four of the Dwarf-houses originated in the East: the Ironfists, Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, and Stonefoots. Some of these Dwarves may have turned to evil under the influence of Morgoth as did many Men who lived in Rhun.
The first Men originally awoke in the East in a place called Hildorien. Many Men migrated westward, including those who became known as the Edain, who were the ancestors of the Numenoreans. But many other Men remained in Rhun. These Men were known collectively as the Easterlings. The Easterlings were not a unified nation. Different groups that later arose among the Easterlings included the Wainriders and the Balchoth.
In the First Age, some Easterlings journeyed to Beleriand in far western Middle-earth. Some were in the service of Morgoth and were summoned by him, while others came because they had heard rumors of the lands and riches in Beleriand. Two Easterling chieftains named Bor and Ulfang made alliances with the Elves of Beleriand. But while Bor remained loyal, Ulfang was a traitor and his sons turned against the Elves during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, leading to a crushing defeat by Morgoth's forces.
Morgoth had promised Ulfang's people a great reward, but after the battle Morgoth reneged and exiled the Easterlings to the region of Hithlum. The Easterlings continued to serve Morgoth out of fear. They oppressed and enslaved the people who lived there, who were mainly the families of the Edain of the House of Hador who had died in the battle.
Some of the women were forced to marry Easterlings. Aerin - a kinswoman of Hurin - was taken as a wife by an Easterling named Brodda, who had enslaved many of Hurin's people. Brodda was later killed by Hurin's son Turin.
The chieftain of the Easterlings in Hithlum was Lorgan. Lorgan captured and enslaved Tuor for three years, but Tuor escaped and exacted revenge on the Easterlings. Lorgan set a bounty on Tuor's head, but Tuor eluded the Easterlings for four years until he finally left the region.
Morgoth was defeated in the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age, but his lieutenant Sauron survived. Sauron established his realm in Mordor on the western border of Rhun around the year 1000 of the Second Age. He extended his influence to the East and South and many of the Men of Rhun and Harad became his minions. The Easterlings grew strong during this period. Their population was large and they built many walled towns of stone.
When Sauron distributed the Nine Rings to Men, he gave one to a Man of Rhun known as Khamul the Easterling. Khamul became the second-in-command of the Nazgul after the Witch-king of Angmar.
Easterlings fought for Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance against the Elves and the Men of Gondor and Arnor from 3434 to 3441 of the Second Age. Sauron was defeated and the One Ring was taken from him, and his spirit fled to Rhun where he hid for centuries rebuilding his strength. Many of the Easterlings who survived and returned home to Rhun remained enemies of Gondor.
In 490 of the Third Age, the Easterlings attacked Gondor. They were defeated by Romendacil I of Gondor in 500, but in 541 the Easterlings resumed their attack and Romendacil I was killed. The Easterlings were driven back by Romendacil's son Turambar, who claimed territory for Gondor east of the Anduin.
Around the year 1000, the Wizards came to Middle-earth and three of them journeyed into Rhun. Alatar and Pallando - the Blue Wizards - were sent to Rhun on a mission to help free the Easterlings from Sauron's influence. Saruman accompanied them for a time but he soon returned to western Middle-earth. Alatar and Pallando ultimately failed at their task. It is not know what became of them. They may have perished, or they may have been corrupted by Sauron and encouraged cults and magic traditions among the Easterlings.
Easterling ArmySauron left Rhun and built the stronghold of Dol Guldur in Mirkwood around 1050, but his influence was still strong among the Easterlings who attacked Gondor numerous times over the course of the Third Age.
In the 1200s, the Easterlings made incursions along the borderlands and corrupted some of the Northmen who lived in Wilderland between Rhun and Gondor. In 1248, Romendacil II of Gondor made a decisive stroke against the Easterlings in order to ensure the allegiance of the Northmen to Gondor. He defeated an army of Easterlings and destroyed many of their settlements around the Sea of Rhun.
From 1635 to 1636, the Great Plague spread from Rhun westward into Gondor and much of the rest of Middle-earth. The Easterlings were affected by the Plague as well, but Gondor was severely weakened. The Plague had probably been sent by Sauron for this purpose.
In 1851, Sauron's emissaries incited the Easterlings to attack Gondor again. These Easterlings were called the Wainriders because they travelled in wains - or wagons - and used chariots in battle. The Wainriders came from beyond the Sea of Rhun and first assaulted the Northmen in Wilderland who had been diminished by the Plague.
In 1856, King Narmacil II led an army from Gondor to fight the Wainriders in the Battle of the Plains south of Mirkwood. Narmacil II was killed and Gondor's forces were defeated. They retreated and abandoned their territory east of the Anduin except Ithilien.
The Wainriders suffered losses in the battle, and they delayed their plan to invade Gondor. Instead they continued their conquest of the lands of the Northmen. Many Northmen were killed or enslaved, but others moved to the Vales of the Anduin where they became known as the Eotheod.
In 1899, the Wainriders planned to raid Gondor's northern province of Calenardhon. King Calimehtar of Gondor learned of their intentions and he joined forces with the Eotheod and defeated the Wainriders on the plain of Dagorlad. While the Wainriders were at war, some of the enslaved Northmen tried to revolt. They burned many of the Wainriders' settlements between Mirkwood and the Sea of Rhun. But the rebellion was put down by the Wainriders who had remained behind, including the young women who were trained to fight in their culture.
The Wainriders were subdued for a time. They hesitated to make a further strike on Gondor since they did not know its true size or strength. Back home in Rhun, the Wainriders regrouped and their population grew and spread. As they expanded southward they came into contact with the Men of Khand and Harad. At first there was conflict between them, but the Wainriders eventually formed an alliance with their southern neighbors who were also enemies of Gondor.
In 1944, the Wainriders joined forces with the Men of Khand and Harad and launched an attack on Gondor on two fronts. The Haradrim invaded Ithilien from the south, while the Wainriders and the Men of Khand gathered a great force near the Sea of Rhun in preparation for an attack from the northeast. They marched alongside the Ash Mountains and took the Northern Army of Gondor by surprise as they approached the Black Gate of Mordor. The Northern Army was routed. King Ondoher of Gondor and both his sons were killed in the fighting - which led to the end of the line of Kings in Gondor just two generations later.
The Wainriders believed they had defeated Gondor's entire army. They made camp in northern Ithilien and held a feast to celebrate before continuing on to conquer Gondor. But they were surprised by the Southern Army of Gondor led by Earnil. Earnil's forces had already defeated the Haradrim in southern Ithilien, and now they defeated the Wainriders in the Battle of the Camp. The Wainriders were driven out of Ithilien, and many died in the Dead Marshes.
Although the Wainriders were vanquished, there were still many Men in Rhun who remained enemies of Gondor. The influence of Sauron was strong among the Easterlings. In 2063, Sauron was forced to leave his stronghold of Dol Guldur to escape discovery by Gandalf. Sauron went to Rhun, where he remained for four centuries until he returned to Dol Guldur in 2460. This period was known as the Watchful Peace.
Another group of Men from the East called the Balchoth began expanding westward from Rhun in the 2500's. The Balchoth were probably akin to the Wainriders, and they too were under Sauron's influence. Their weapons were crude but their population was large. The Balchoth occupied the lands between the Sea of Rhun and Mirkwood. They made frequent raids through the forest into the Vales of the Anduin, and the people who lived there fled before them.
Gondor's defenses along the Anduin in this region had been neglected over the years due to a decline in population and a lack of vigilance during the Watchful Peace. The Balchoth planned to launch an invasion across the Anduin into Calenardhon. They built boats and rafts on the eastern shore in preparation for the attack.
Cirion, the Steward of Gondor, sent six messengers north to ask for help from Gondor's old allies the Eotheod. The Balchoth pursued the messengers, killing all but one of them. The sixth rider, Borondir, successfully delivered his message to Eorl the Young who set out to Gondor with an army.
On April 15, 2510, the Balchoth crossed the Anduin en masse. Gondor's defenses were quickly overcome, and the army led by Cirion was cut off and driven over the Limlight into the Field of Celebrant. At the same time, Orcs came down from the Misty Mountains and attacked the Gondorians from the west.
But Eorl the Young arrived in time and the Balchoth and the Orcs were defeated in the Battle of the Field of Celebrant. The Balchoth were driven back over the Limlight and were hunted down by the Eotheod until Calenardhon was rid of the invaders. Calenardhon was given by Cirion to Eorl's people and it became Rohan.
Despite the defeat of the Balchoth, Men from Rhun continued to pose a threat to the Men of western Middle-earth. In 2545, Easterlings invaded the Wold in northern Rohan and Eorl was killed. Eorl's son Brego drove out the Easterlings.
In 2758, Easterlings again crossed the Anduin into Rohan, while at the same time Rohan was invaded from the west by Men of Dunland. The Dunlendings were driven out the next year by Frealaf, while the Easterlings were caught in the great floodwaters that formed around the Mouths of the Entwash in the spring thaw following the Long Winter. Many Easterlings died, and the survivors withdrew from Rohan.
Between 2957 and 2980, Aragorn journeyed throughout Middle-earth, and his travels took him eastward into Rhun. Aragorn's purpose was to gain a better understanding of the Men in different parts of the world, and also to learn what he could about Sauron's plans.
Sauron was gradually rebuilding his strength. He had returned to Mordor, and he summoned Men from Rhun and Harad to increase his forces. The armies from the East included swordsmen, spearmen, and archers mounted on horses, while their chieftains rode in chariots.
On June 20, 3018, Sauron launched an attack on Osgiliath with an army that included Easterlings and Haradrim. The Men of Gondor led by Boromir and Faramir held the river crossing, but Sauron's forces captured the eastern half of the city.
Frodo Baggins saw an army of Easterlings enter the Black Gate on March 5, 3019. On March 10, a force comprised of Easterlings and Orcs captured the island of Cair Andros in the Anduin and crossed into the region of Anorien north of Minas Tirith. They blocked the Great West Road in an unsuccessful attempt to prevent the Rohirrim from coming to help Gondor. The Easterlings in this force were of a kind unknown to the Men of Gondor. They were broad and bearded and wielded axes.
Easterlings fought at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields on March 15. Sauron's forces were defeated in that battle, but the Easterlings and Haradrim put up a fierce resistance. They held out until sunset and were the last to be overcome by the forces of Gondor and Rohan, but at last nearly all of them were slain or driven into the river. The Easterlings and Orcs who had been in Anorien retreated and were routed back toward Cair Andros by the Rohirrim.
That same day in the north, an army of Easterlings attacked the Men of Dale and the Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain. The Battle of Dale lasted three days. On March 17, King Brand of Dale and King Dain of the Lonely Mountain were killed. The Dwarves and the Men of Dale retreated inside the Lonely Mountain where they were besieged by the Easterlings.
On March 18, the armies of Gondor and Rohan set out for the Black Gate of Mordor. Easterlings and Orcs tried to ambush them on March 21, but they were thwarted by the vigilance of the Rangers of Ithilien. As the Host of the West approached the Black Gate, the main force of the Easterlings awaited in the shadows of the Ash Mountains.
The Battle of the Morannon was fought on March 25. It lasted until the One Ring was destroyed in Mount Doom and Sauron was utterly defeated. When that happened, most of Sauron's forces scattered in fear and confusion. Some Easterlings fled eastward, while others surrendered. The most hardened Easterlings and Haradrim made a last stand against the Host of the West, but they were defeated.
News of Sauron's defeat spread to the Lonely Mountain in the north. The Easterlings' siege was broken, and Brand's son Bard II and Dain's son Thorin Stonehelm drove them away into the East.
After Aragorn became King of the Reunited Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor, he pardoned the Easterlings who had surrendered, and he also received ambassadors from the peoples of Rhun. Not all of the Easterlings were at peace with the Men of western Middle-earth, but Aragorn and King Eomer of Rohan rode out beyond the Sea of Rhun and subdued them."
( with great thanks to The Thain's Book  ~ "Rhun and The Easterlings" ~ http://www.tuckborough.net/rhun.html)

I think this is the last of it.



__________________

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit
Called or uncalled, God is present

Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 377
Date: Aug 25, 2011
Wow bear, thank you for the effort to post all of this. My only concern is that I thought the nazgul named Gothmog took the late witch-kings place as lead nazgul when he fell. And was the 2nd in command before that. Or am I confused about the matter?

__________________
But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Huan the great hound wrote:
Wow bear, thank you for the effort to post all of this. My only concern is that I thought the nazgul named Gothmog took the late witch-kings place as lead nazgul when he fell. And was the 2nd in command before that. Or am I confused about the matter?

The Nazgul you're refering to is called Khamul who was the only Nazgul to be named. He was indeed the Second Chief of the Nazgul and in the past had been in charge of Dol Guldur. He took the leadership of the Nazgul after the Witch-King had been vanquished.
The Gothmog you're getting confused with is the chief orc in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields known as the lieutenant of Morgul.



__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 377
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Glorfindel, I just check in the return of the king to be sure and there is no mention of Gothmog being an orc. Why would Sauron choose an orc to captain the remaining 8 nazgul and all the rest of his vast army? Fosters guide to middle earth was my sorce towards gothmog being a nazgul. But even he was not certain. Unless I don't know something that's in the HoME or unfinished tales or the letters of JRR Tolkien, I'm going to continue to say gothmog was a nazgul.

__________________
But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Tom Bombadil
Status: Offline
Posts: 1886
Date: Aug 29, 2011
Well, I guess Bear went to the same place I went to.

__________________

Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

Guard of Armenelos - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 764
Date: Aug 29, 2011
Wasn't Gothmog the name of the chief of the Balrogs of Morgoth? I thought that Peter Jackson just utilized the name to give a little more power to the scar-riddled captain of the Orcs that assailed the walls of Minas Tirith. In the books they never mention that captain's name.

__________________
Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 377
Date: Aug 29, 2011
Yes Gothmog was the cheif balrog's name. But in the return of the king after the witch king fell Gothmog is listed as the new leader of the army.

__________________
But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
Status: Offline
Posts: 1109
Date: Aug 29, 2011
Gothmog is only mentioned once in the book:

"There they had been mustered for the sack of the City and the rape of Gondor, waiting on the call of their Captain. He now was destroyed; but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand."

While he probably wasn't one of the Nazgul it is not certain whether he was an orc, though it seems the most likely candidate.

Once the Witch-king perished in the battle I Gothmog took over leadership of the battle but not of the Nazgul. As is said above Khamul became the chief of the remaining eight Ringwraiths. From the Tolkien Gateway:

"Khamûl was one of the nine Ringwraiths, second only to the Witch-king himself. He was called Sauron's lieutenant, "Shadow of the East", and "the Black Easterling". He was a king of Easterlings before being given one of the Nine Rings. He was the only Ringwraith whose name was given by Tolkien.

Khamûl commanded the fortress of Dol Guldur after Sauron's return to Mordor. It was he who asked Hamfast Gamgee for "Baggins" the day after Frodo Baggins had left Hobbiton and pursued the Hobbits to Bucklebury Ferry in the Shire some days later.

Following the destruction of the One Ring, Khamûl perished with the rest of the Ringwraiths at the Battle of the Morannon. "



As for Gothmog here is what they have to say about him: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gothmog,_Lieutenant_of_Morgul

__________________
You want it for Yourself!
Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 377
Date: Sep 23, 2011
And on another note, are there any detailed maps of Rhun? Perhaps a list of its cities or major tribes? I'm very interested in how they live. It seems as though Rhun wasn't one big country/providence as much as many areas or tribes. Anyone have an idea about that?

__________________
But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Date: Jan 24, 2013
About Gothmog being an Orc is not likely at all.
Gothmog was second in command in Minas Morgul, Khamul was the second ranked ring wraith but he was in command of Dol Guldur not Minas Morgul wich means that this in no way contradicts that Gothmog would be a ring wraith.
But just as the Witch King and Khamul had their charges so can it be that the other seven had theirs, and it is suggested that Khamul is the only Nazgûl named in the book wich hints that Gothmog, being named, cannot be a Nazgûl.
That Gothmog would be an Orc is still not likely.
He could be, as the Mouth of Sauron, a Black Númenorean wich seems the most likely because both Sauron and Saruman had Men as close servants and Tolkien often repeat certain habits in different characters in the same book.
If neither of the above he could be a Boldog, a lesser Maia just as the Great Goblin in The Hobbit, just as lots of Orc chieftains before.

__________________
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2960
Date: Jan 25, 2013

Fruppa,
    Welcome to The Tolkien Forums.

    Here you will find people to hear your ideas, opinions, and insights to anything Tolkien related.  
    And folks from all over the world share their love of Tolkien and his works here.
    While I am only a member here if I can help you make use of the Forums, or help with navigation around the site, or answer any questions,  please don't hesitate to ask.  I'm sure you will meet other members with the same sincere welcome to our site.
    There are many threads and topics here that go back for years ..... please don't be intimidated at their age ... we love to reopen these threads over and over again ... your thoughts and explorations will be greeted with enthusiasm.
Again, ... Welcome!smile
Bear an Elf-Friend

Here is a little research to contribute to your current discussion on this thread.

Gothmog  ~ was the Lord of Balrogs and the High-captain of Angband, one of the chief servants of the Dark Lord Morgoth with a rank equal to that of Sauron. While he was not as powerful as the Dark Lords, he surpassed them in brute strength and possibly strategy.
Gothmog's Quenya name was Oþombauko or later Noldorin Osombauko [edit] History

    Gothmog was apparently one of the Maiar that followed Melkor to exile, and because of either his brilliant mind or because of his ability to assume an immensely powerful physical form, he was made the Lord of Balrogs.
    At the Dagor-nuin-Giliath he mortally wounded Fëanor, but called a retreat upon the approach of the Sons of Fëanor with a sizable force.  He next appeared at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, where he was also named high-captain of Angband, again inferring his power and status as essentially Morgoth's right-hand Balrog (Sauron, another spirit, played a more domestic than front-line role for his master). There at the Nirnaeth he slew Fingon, thus allowing him to boast of having slain two of the five High Kings of the Noldor.  He also captured Húrin Thalion in this battle, despite Húrin slaughter of many of Gothmog's troll-guard.
    He was again deployed as Morgoth's front-line commander in the Fall of Gondolin, where he was slain by Ecthelion.  According to the (albeit uncanonical) text, Gothmog piled his iron siege equipment against the North Gate of Gondolin until it broke from sheer pressure.  The same text states that he also took a front-line position against Rog, turning the tide in that part of the battle.  More confirmed canonically, he beat down Tuor in single combat, but the elf-lord Ecthelion of the Fountain, who was badly wounded, rose and stood over him. Ecthelion stood no chance against the Lord of Balrogs, and lost his sword in the brief struggle. But then Ecthelion leaped forward, and stabbed Gothmog in the breast with the spike atop his helm. They both fell into the Fountain of the King, where Gothmog, if not already killed by the spike, drowned with his opponent.
(again ...Thanks to the Tolkien Gateway ~ http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gothmog_(balrog))

Hope this reference helps Fruppa



__________________

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit
Called or uncalled, God is present

 
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.



Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard