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Topic: Miruvor

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Tom Bombadil
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Date: Mar 6, 2011
Miruvor

I know there was a Miruvóre, the Nectar of the Valar, made from flowers in the gardens of Yavanna, and served it at the festivals of the Valar.

I am trying to find out if Miruvor might have the same origin, or a similar origin and if it was there in the First Age, before the Noldor came back to Middle-earth. I would like to use Miruvor in my book, but I would appreciate input from you who are into the research of the books of Tolkien.


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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
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Date: Mar 6, 2011
Tolkien noted that while the Elves did not know its ingredients or making, they thought the miruvóre of the Valar was made of the honey/nectar of certain flowers in the gardens of Valinor. Basically that's the same idea as published in The Road Goes Ever On. 

In Quendi And Eldar miruvóre, miruvor was said to be the name of a 'special wine or cordial' ('mead' in the translation of Namárie), also noting Valarin mirubhôzê-  said to be the beginning of a longer word, containg the element mirub- 'wine'

As for Miruvor, this word applied to a drink '... probably made basically of honey (of ? scented flowers)' Words, Phrases, And Passages



-- Edited by Galin on Sunday 6th of March 2011 08:51:49 PM

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Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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Miruvor  ~ was the reviving cordial of the Elves, a liquor with the power to grant renewed vigour and strength.
It was the same, or an imitation of miruvórë, the nectar of the Valar made from Yavanna's flowers, poured during their festivals.
Miruvor was clear and colourless, with a pleasant fragrance. Gandalf carried a flask of this Cordial of Imladris with him to help the Company of the Ring on their southward journey. Both the Dúnedain and the Orcs possessed drinks with similar properties, but miruvor was known to be the most potent of these cordials.
(Thanks to The Tolkien Gateway, http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Miruvor)


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Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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Date: Mar 7, 2011
Miruvor ~ Appearing in The Lord of the Rings, miruvor is a warm and fragrant clear cordial of the Elves. It gives the drinker renewed strength and vitality. Miruvor is used by the Elves at their festivals. They do not reveal how miruvor was made, but it is thought to come from the honey of the undying flowers in the gardens of Yavanna. Elrond gives a flask of miruvor to Gandalf when the Fellowship embarked on their quest. During the snowstorm on Caradhras, Gandalf gave each of the companions a sip of the cordial to revive their frozen and tired limbs. He gave them another sip when they stopped to rest, and a third sip when they first entered the Mines of Moria. At that point, the precious liquid had almost run out.
Miruvor was also mentioned in the lament Galadriel sang when the Fellowship left Lórien:

Yéni ve lintë yuldar avánier mi oromardi lisse-miruvóreva Andúnë pella ...
(The long years have passed like swift draughts of sweet mead (miruvor) in lofty halls beyond the West )
The exact translation of miruvor or miruvóre, is not known, but Tolkien compared it to the Greek nectar, for which he gave "death-defeater" as a probable etymological meaning.
(Thanks to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List of Middle-earth food & drink)


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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
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'It was the same, or an imitation of miruvore,...'

This, as it seems to me, touches upon the heart of (part of) Arwen's question.

To my mind it wasn't the same, or at least seems unlikely to have been exactly the same: if the Elves of Middle-earth don't know 'its ingredients or making' -- that is, the original Miruvore of Aman -- then I would naturally think that their Miruvor was the same in the sense that it was made in 'imitation' of what the Elves believed about the drink of Aman. The cordial of Imladris may be Elvish and especially potent of course, but in my opinion it does not appear to have been made of any possibly preserved materials relocated from Aman (at least not knowingly).



-- Edited by Galin on Monday 7th of March 2011 03:32:29 PM

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Tom Bombadil
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Date: Mar 8, 2011
And since there was no Imladris early in the First Age, before the Sun and the Moon, I better not introduce it to my readers. SO we will have no Miruvor to refresh and strengthen us while battling those Orcs in our Doriath RPG. Thanks

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Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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Hmmm ...
Of course Melian could have taught the elves how to make it ... or someone from across the sea could have brought it ... any Ainur could have taught the elves.
Mead ... a drink made from honey.
Wine ... a drink made from fruit.
Beer ... a drink made from grain ...
So ... could there be many types of beer, wine, or mead?
Of course there could!
Bordeux ... a type of wine
Catawba ... a type of wine.
Chablis ... a type of wine.
Chianti ... a type of wine. ... etc and etc...
Seems to me that denying miruvor is like straining to swallow a gnat after swallowing a camel.
As Imladris miruvor is a type od mead ... How about a Doriath miruvor?
Or any other miruvor made from the bee's work on select flowers.
Lady Arwen ... I wouldn't worry ... I think you could get away with any type of brew and if it is mead any type of miruvor.



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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
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I don't think there's anything wrong with having a drink of some sort in Doriath of course, but the question might center on the name Miruvor specifically. The fuller citations from WPP seem to show Tolkien's thoughts...

1 304
S miruvor Sindarin form taken by borrowed Quenya word: Q Miruvore 'precious juice'; MIR- 'esteem value', as in Q mire, a treasure, precious thing; S mir, a treasure, a jewel (...)'

Then Tolkien works out a fuller etymology with a base WOR- 'express, cause to exude by pressure' seemingly in order to explain the juice element. Thus the word appears to be fully explained in an Eldarin context. But next JRRT notes: 'This is a false etymology. High Elvish. There was not in fact any word wor- in Elvish, Quenya or Sindarin.' And in a subsequent note (concerning the same entry): 'The word was thought of as precious drink (and largely of honey) but word was of Valarin origin. mirubhoze, a honey wine, mirub wine.'

So now miruvor ultimately hails from a Valarin word. Tolkien will later (in the commentary) encounter the Quenya word, and note again:

'(...) miruvore is said to be in origin a 'Valarin' word (reduced and Eldarinized). A drink of which the Elves did not know the ingrediants or making. [Commentary on the nainie of Galadriel]. The name miruvor (reduced as numenore > numenor) is applied to a cordial made in Rivendell (LR I 304). This is the same word, but applied to a drink, probably made basically of honey (of? scented flowers). The Elves said they thought the miruvore of the Valar was made of honey/nectar of certain flowers in the gardens of Valinor.'

So this would appear to confirm that the 'Sindarin' word has become a borrowing from Quenya, itself  Eldarinized from Valarin. But if we look at the first entry (the context still being Grey-elven usage, or at least possibly so) the word still referred to 'precious drink', even though the second entry does not note this specifically (nor deny it), but to 'a drink' and so on.

Eldarin speakers would arguably still associate mir- with other 'jewel words' (Mirdain for example), so would they apply this term to just any drink made by Elves? It's possible! but I would guess that the word Miruvor might be set aside for a special drink, one made in attempt to imitate the legendary Miruvore of the Powers.

I could be wrong, but to err on the side of caution I would not use the term specifically for a drink in Doriath (without it being attested) -- though a 'regular' drink of Elvish make in Doriath, would, I think, be something more than expected in any case!


Perhaps a somewhat minor distinction for RPG-ing (whether I'm on the right track here or not), but fun to delve into! 

-- Edited by Galin on Wednesday 9th of March 2011 03:29:10 PM

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Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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Perhaps...
Miruvor vs. (Elven) miruvir = Wine vs. (Blueberry) wine = Cider vs. (Apple) cider.

So why not "miruvir" ???


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Tom Bombadil
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Date: Mar 11, 2011
That's a good idea Bear.

Galen, where did this information come from ?

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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
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Date: Mar 12, 2011
It comes from Tolkien's Words, Phrases and Passages Arwen.



-- Edited by Galin on Sunday 13th of March 2011 09:54:47 PM

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Tom Bombadil
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Date: Mar 12, 2011
Thank you Galen, I had to sell my HomE books last year when I was moving and I am accumulating references this way. I appreciate that.

So my character, Mayariel, Having been send by the Valar could easily have had access to Miruvoré, but should probably call it an energizing mixture.
Since you were not a part in the retaking of Moria RPG, you might want to read my first post in that RPG. I am using my direct interactions with others, who had given me permission to do so. I was asked by Manwë and Varda not to reveal my identity unless in dire need and then only to other Maia, especially Olórin, who you could say is my "boss" because he has more experience in Arda, and is there in the Spirit realm in my book, whom I can summon in my need. I am also allowed to reveal myself to the High Elves of the First-born when I have, but it is not the first preference. That first Post will explain this.

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Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

 
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