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Topic: Mouth of Sauron?

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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
Status: Offline
Posts: 563
Date: Sep 20, 2011
RE: Mouth of Sauron?

No I don't think you're confusing things Jaidoprism7... I think I am biggrin


It was really a little aside in any case.


'From the standpoint of plain old storytelling I think we can all admit that Sauron was the name used by the Good Guys to describe the Main Antagonist of the LOTR books (Whatever his name may be in the original language of the Red Book, Westron was it?)'


Largely Westron, yes; but for the record I think Sauron appears in the fictive original Red Book, just as other Elvish names do, as they were both spoken and written at the time concerned -- while 'Saruman' cannot realistically appear in the original, being Old English.



Granted, it seems that many people who read The Lord of the Rings are not used to thinking in terms of it being a translation, but as you note Jaidoprism7, Tolkien takes his subcreation to amazing and intricate levels! When working on the Silmarillion in the 1930s, JRRT even provided Old English versions of some of the related texts! because at that time he imagined that the original stories were told to Eriol/Elfwine in Eressea, who then translated them into Old English... allowing a certain Oxford philologist to ultimately 'find them' somehow (at some point) and translate them again into Modern English.


Erm, to stray off topic again!


Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2960
Date: Sep 20, 2011


Not to take it to far off topic ... you all bring up the point of "Who was Tolkien writing to?" ... or "Who was Tolkien writing for?"

We know he was writing "The Hobbit" for his children and eventually other children. The same can be said for "The Father Christmas Letters."
We know he was writing "The Lord of The Rings" for his publisher and the world at large.
And we can go on identifying audience to all his other writings; etc,etc.

But please picture this ... mud filled trenches, shell fragments and concussion every where, bodies shattered by machine gun fire, and the image of a young man scribbling words on a paper creating ... for himself ... a world to escape to ... with new languages,characters, plots and sub-plots, and reflections of the real world gone crazy into a place called "Middle-earth."
And finally an obsession and place of joy for an academic scholar and professor to escape to and share with fellow authors.

Imagine the thought process of creating new languages and somehow taking these creations and bringing them to light in the vernacular of today ...

Nobody is confusing anybody ... you are simply entering the beautiful and sometimes erractic mind which is dominated by a streak of creativity who must define AND redefine his imaginal world in a language he hopes we will embrace.

Please excuse my soapbox ... but I think it needed to be said.


Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit
Called or uncalled, God is present

Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date: Mar 2, 2012
ERU not to maiar Name. If, however, been asked to own the name, why would you doubt that was his name?


 HP 98 ink cartridge

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