Tolkien Forums

Perhaps we could do an organised 'system' with regards to lore discussions. Maybe a few of us could take it in turns to post a lore topic, say on a twice-weekly basis? That way at least there will always be one lore topic as well as the other stuff. I'm thinking on a bread-and-butter level, rather than anything hugely analytical.

Any good?

Insightful topic. Low activity is never a good thing on a forum.

I could participate in the creation of lore discussions if there are one or two others as well.

Hello dear friends (if I can call you so),

I did notice that the games are one of the only things keeping the forum "alive" (exept of the occasional question about lore and such things but it happens really rarely.).
I was sick recently, so I wasn't very active on the forums.
I would love to help keeping the forum alive. (even if my knowledge isn't as great as yours. And I did read everything in Czech, so I'm not very familiar with the english names.)

Atrix
*very occupied with his programming mission. quest. thing.*

Glad to see you're back Arwen.

I remember a few people interested in the RP thing but not enough. Need about five or so to make it work. Perhaps more will be interested in the lore idea.

All,
So let us go back to using this data.
A suggestion by Glorfindel 1235 strikes me as a positive step.
"Perhaps we could do an organized  'system'  with regards to lore discussions. Maybe a few of us could take it in turns to post a lore topic, say on a twice-weekly basis? That way at least there will always be one lore topic as well as the other stuff. I'm thinking on a bread-and-butter level, rather than anything hugely analytical ... Any good?" (Tolkien Forums > Site suggestions / Ideas / help  > An informal survey about our site > Glorfindel 1235 > October 16th, 2010)

These are the folks I think supported that suggestion and would willingly participate;
Bear, mouth of sauron, atrix, lomoduin, and Glorfindel 1235.
May I suggest we start with one topic a week? That will give us 5 new threads every week.  And we might encourage other members to join this group increasing that number.
Let us see how it works and then look again in a month analyzing its effect and then, if we need to make changes, modify the current plan or find new solutions..
I will post a new thread today ... I challenge others to do the same.

On the informal survey ...
In presenting the data I strove for anonymity.
With some choosing to comment and break that stance I say "Thank you!"
Your love for the Forums was exactly what the survey was about.
There was no thought or criticism implied or even considered. 
I will continue to attempt anonymity ~ your self disclosure will be the only break in that purpose.

I have belatedly sent a copy of the original post to The One ... along with my apologies for not clearing the survey and publication of results without consulting The One first.

Please continue giving feedback to our informal survey.
Please encourage others to do so also.

Abraham Lincoln spoke in his First Inaugural Address some appropriate remarks; (with apologies to President Lincoln) that may apply
"We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every ... field, to every living heart and hearth-stone, all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus ... , when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature." (Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, Washington, D.C.,  March 4th, 1861)

Let us make it work!

Hey all. I'm gonna try to get a topic on asap. I'm off this weekend so probably Sunday it will be done. I'm also starting a small remodeling project at my house so I'll be a little preoccupied with that for the next week or so. Looking forward to renewed activity, on my part and everyone elses.

All,
I notice one of our members generating posts and interest without creating new threads.
Galin has gone back and brought old threads back with new insights and new postings.
I think that is also a GREAT idea.
His commentary about Galadriel is very interesting ... especially comments he brought to the surface made by Tolkien and son themselves.

It makes sense to go back and look through the old threads and bring them back to life ... isn't that what lore is all about?

Thank you Galin for your insight and leadership.

Bear

Certainly seems to be more activity this week that is for sure. I had an idea for a lore topic but I can't for the life of me remember it.

Mr. Baggins,
Give it a shot!

Maybe a trivia based on 'The Hobbit' book, rather than a specific place or people?

Hope you have a good holiday Lomoduin and we see you back soon.

Lady Arwen and Glorfindel,
Did the hobbits celebrate "Yuletide"?
And if so ...how?
A curious,
Bear
(maybe this should be a seperate thread?)

-- Edited by Bear on Friday 3rd of December 2010 04:52:50 AM

From Wikipedia:

Yule
Although Yule is celebrated in the midwinter in the Shire, it is in some ways different from the more recently historical Yule practices in England.

The Shire's fictional Yule consisted of two days called 1 Yule and 2 Yule. The last day of the year was 1 Yule and the first day of the next year was 2 Yule. The Yuledays fell between the months called Foreyule and Afteryule and were not part of either month. 1 Yule was always on a Friday and 2 Yule fell on Saturday.

Yule was one of the two chief holidays in the Shirethe other being the midsummer holiday called Lithe. The Yule celebrations lasted six days in total, including two days before and two days after the Yuledays. This six-day period was called Yuletide. It was a time of feasting and merriment.

After the War of the Ring, it was feared that the Yule feasts would be rather meager due to shortages of provisions in the Shire. But large stores of food and beer were found in the tunnels of Michel Delving and in the quarries at Scary and in other places, so the Yuledays were a time of great cheer.

The Elves did not have a celebration at midwinter. It appears that the Rohirrim maintained the custom of celebrating the midwinter holiday as their ancestors the Northmen had done. The name of the holiday in Rohan is not known but it was most likely similar to "Yule."

Interesting.

-- Edited by Glorfindel1235 on Saturday 4th of December 2010 11:50:19 PM

John Wain wrote:

---

I just found this topic and read through it with interest. Actually I think I know the problem very well, and in fact it's ever present here as well.

I was a member of the now defunct tolkienforum.co.uk, a forum hosted by HarperCollins, which was opened in 2007 when they first published 'The Children of Hurin'. I was a member since May 2008, and already the forum had seen an impressive amount of activity in the year before my arrival, which was slowing down by the time I started posting there. It is the same everywhere, because a forum will likely create lots of discussion in its early phase, when knowledgeable people meet with less knowledgeable ones, and there is a flow of information. Likely as not, the experts in the field will stay on the forum, while the others will move on once they have found out what they wanted to know. On the tolkienforum.co.uk, by early 2011, there were less than 10 people still coming online and talking there, and of course the lore was already shared and we kept it as a meeting place of convenience, but Tolkien-based discussion had been reduced to a minimum. (Probably this is why it was closed down.)

Here I see there are more people actively posting and contributing, and the discussions revolve around Tolkien. But as Arwen pointed out, at a certain moment in time, lore discussions will become scientific, or will die down because there is only so much to say of anything.

Personally I am trying to help in any way I can, and this means participating in the games and trivia, or making up lore topics, or indeed bringing back to life old ones (as I did several times already).

I was even thinking about opening up some discussions about Tolkien's lesser known works (I am just reading through them now), because I see these have received very little attention here. Maybe they could spark some discussion, seeing that they are easy to read and comment.

---

My experience on Tolkien sites is much the same John. Even the few bigger ones that began with the films have long since diminished.
My guess would be that after a major release like LotR alot of 'newbies' were clamouring to know more about Middle-earth and to feel part of the 'goings on'. Some of them formed lasting connections with the fantasy and continued posting while most others were no longer interested. This, coupled with the fact that there is only so much to talk about, left most forums diminishing. I guess only more major film releases will boost activity once again.

Now I found this topic.
Very insightful, eye-opening, and plain sad - although it provides 'The Historic Point of View' of this forum.
Bear, you did an amazing job - I understand there has been a period of declining activity, and you tried to find the reasons...

Meanness was brought up. So far I didn't notice much of it. The meanest thing happening here is no response.

But a couple of things that made me wonder are these:
(1) the notion that people communicate on the forums with the purpose to establish real life connections. It never occurred to me that it might anyhow apply to this forum. Being human, I sometimes do get intensely curious about the people I am posting with - mainly because I have never seen a Tolkien 'fan' (sorry I hate that word) in my whole life and in all probability never will... but I suppress that curiosity as totally irrelevant; there is real life for real life connections. Still the thought that people like you exist (even if not within reach but more like aliens somewhere in outer space) is pleasant and encouraging.

(2) I don't feel like agreeing with this:
John Wain: "...at a certain moment in time, lore discussions will become scientific..."
Arwen Legolas: "Also most of the topics have been getting too scientific. Too involved..."
What does 'scientific' in this context mean? To me, only the LOTR and The Hobbit are works of fiction; The Silmarillion isn't really fiction but a condensed and abbreviated (also edited for cohesiveness and often not representing the latest views) description of events; while UT and HoMe are basically scientific works. So, is comparison of various versions 'too scientific/involved'? What about bringing up Christopher Tolkien's comments?.. Is a little Basic program or playing with a few numbers (numbers ought to make people numb I guess) too scientific - meaning discouraging participation? Or maybe the currently active members don't feel the same way? Just wondering.

(3) John Wain: "...or [lore topics] will die down because there is only so much to say of anything."
Every time I read literally anything I find something new and worthy of discussion. Maybe questions like 'what' or 'who' could be exhausted after some time, but then there are 'why' and 'how' and my feeling is that there is no limit to those. Not to mention 'what if'! And still there are topics that look quite obvious but are not getting discussed in detail for whatever obscure reason (like my favorite oath of Feanor and its consequences. And there are more. Why did Turgon take part in Nirnaeth? Why did Maeglin join him? Or the topic that Jaidoprism7 planned to open - hope this will happen soon).
Here I would like to mention one thing. I am not really familiar with forums including Tolkien-related ones. But from time to time I discover yet another such forum, and at least twice I saw discussions with points made nearly identical to what I was posting here. I felt truly idiotic - if anybody notices this happen please point it out because reinventing the wheel is no fun.

Coming back to Bear's survey and the bleak picture it produced, I think that either the measures that were taken worked, or else new and active people have joined, but at least the site is still alive. I got really nervous however to see the feedback from some people with whom I posted at times indicating the intentions to dump all this business - even though the survey is 3 years old.