Tolkien Forums

I'll put my take on each of those points.

1. The signal fire kindling would be prepared and put somewhere out of the rain. The signal fire itself could have a roof, like some did in the films, to protect it somewhat from the elements. The torch would not need to be perpetually ignited. I am sure they knew how to start fires without taking too long!

2. I think you're over exaggerating the vigilance required. A glance every minute or so at the signal fire they are supposed to view is more than sufficient. They don't need to be spot-on with the timing down to the last second.

3. I would think they would have a minor camp near the top and a major one at the base. A group of four men could take it in turns and swap every two or three days. After a few weeks, maybe months, they could go back to the nearby village they lived in and four other men could take over.

----------------------------
       'What is that?' cried Pippin suddenly, clutching at Gandalf's cloak. 'Look! Fire, red fire! Are there dragons in this land? Look, there is another!'
       For answer Gandalf cried aloud to his horse. 'On, Shadowfax! We must
hasten. Time is short. See! The beacons of Gondor are alight, calling for
aid. War is kindled. See, there is the fire on Amon Din, and flame on
Eilenach; and there they go speeding west: Nardol, Erelas, Min-Rimmon,
Calenhad, and the Halifirien on the borders of Rohan.'
------------------------------

So there's six just on the Gondor side... with the last on the border of Rohan. "...there they go, speeding west..." either Gandalf is dragging this sentence out over a period of ten or fifteen minutes.... or those beacons were lit quickly. This bit was captured faithfully by Peter Jackson... delays of only a bare few seconds between the lighting of the beacons.

My friends,
I have been on a detail which demanded vigilance for a specific signal.
It was a radio signal and response time was a matter to avoid deadly force.
The shifts were long ... 6 hours ... and the penalties for leaving your post or sleeping on duty were very severe  including court-martial, loss of rank, and prison time. Nothing compared to an enemy surprise attack ... which could mean death for your fellows and yourself.
Believe me one found ways to keep alert and officer's surprise inspections were a common event.

So ... given the theme of a fantasy medieval military structure I am sure that punishments for dereliction of duty  could be really severe ... ie. losing body parts  ... I don't think the beacon fires being constantly watched and maintained as that far from any military norm ... it is going on in each of our home countries as you read this ... and has been going on in some places for centuries.

Just sitting there with my ear glued to a speaker headphone kept my heart beating faster and I WAS exhausted when my detail/tour was over.
My anxiety kept me vigilant. (And lots of coffee)

But what do I know?
I'm a bear.
I hibernate.
Bear

I could not read through all of that article.

For starters, it is roughly 200 miles from Minas Tirith to Edoras, not 450. Perhaps he corrected this later on in the article.

Anyway, my impression was that the film merely skipped all of the minutes in between each beacon lighting for audience purposes. After all, it took many hours from the first to the last to be lit, therefore each beacon would have taken many minutes to be fully lit. It is just the film glossed over that for obvious viewing purposes.

Will,
I like the idea of a medal for the watchers ... not sure about years of service ... watching at some places would be like a ski lodge ... with pretty maidens all in a row ... (forgive my sexist babble)  ...  maybe a patch for the  outfit ... and medals for defending the watch post in combat?  I like the pyramid of fire idea too.  Maybe the reverse could have which nation they served under (or Steward or King)
Just a thought ...
Bear

Faramir's father would not give a medal lightly or have one fashioned, that is for sure. It would have to mean something to Faramir, himself and I'm volunteering him to submit ideas for the design of the medal of Ithilien. Don't forget that he was the student of not only a warring Stewart of the city but also of Gandalf the wizard, to say the least. Detail and humility with meaning will be neccessary for that one.

Sort of like a Advancement of rank or a recommendation in our Armed Services.

Bear, I didn't know you were in the Signal Corps or even served in the army! Thanks for serving my friend and all those of you who have kept our Middle-earth safe.

I think we need to confer with The One, our own Eru. who would you want to award those to? Do we have anybody who is a Rohir? The only one I know, is our beloved Iomoduin.

Would anybody be in the mood to maybe do an RPG on this? It would not be easy, although we could weave sub-plots around as in remembering the things they do when not on guard duty. And then we could have an award ceremony at he end of the RPG and give out those medals.

Any takers?

Will,
I really like this.
A beautiful creation.
I think Beorn would like it too.
Bear

Another similar piece from Nu Dal (New Dale) of the same period is this silver Raven Penny, featuring a very famous old bird. I'll let you work out the runes. (they're standard Angerthas)

-- Edited by Will Whitfoot on Friday 20th of August 2010 02:39:50 AM

Glad you like them! How many in total?? Hmmm... completely different die designs? Including off-metals? If only counting unique dies then the total ME types is probably 65 or 70. But some were made in various metals as a matter of course. The Leaf of Hollin for instance... coins in the shape of a holly leaf used back in the second age in commerce between the elves of Hollin and dwarves of Khazadh-dhum. They were made in four metals representing the seasons... , green anodized niobium for spring, gold brass for summer, brown toned copper for fall, and sterling silver for winter. But it's the same dies for all four, so is that one type or four?

So... anybody decipher any inscriptions yet? The tengwar may be tricky because Greg actually modified the tengwar table that Tolkien drew and created a syllabary rather than an alphabet... so you write sounds instead of letters. But when we use Angerthas runes it's the straight deal... spellings may appear oddly though. For instance... on the iron "Eye" coins used by orcs and goblins for their nefarious purchases of rotgut liquor and small live animals, the word "OBEY" is written by three Angerthas characters  "OBA" So you have to sound out the letters  "Oh, Bee, Ay" to figure out it means "obey". We do a lot of shortenings of that sort, which are real-life commonplace sorts of inscriptions on medieval coins. (Not much room on a coin... gotta write as consisely as possible.)

But here we've gone off topic... the idea was about the Rohan/Gondor signal corps. So one further thought on that... there would often be foul weather up in those mountains, conceivably so bad that signal fires would be invisible at the distances involved. So there would have to be a backup system of runners. So for instance, you're on one of the stations and see a signal fire... you light your beacon and wait to see the next one light up. But there is a huge snowstorm in the middle airs between you and them, and even though your fire burns for two hours, there is never a break and they have not seen your signal. What do you do? I would think there must be some time limit beyond which a runner would be sent down hill to the base station, whence another is likely sent to the neighboring base station on the next mountain. And so on as necessary until the beacon chain can be resumed. So it's not all sitting around, you've got to keep in shape and able to run 20 miles or better. And they probably do tests of the system from time to time just to keep the training and morale up.

Saba,
I agree. But I would add redundant systems.  Beacons, runners, fireworks, and maybe even an audio system of horns or bells.
After all these beacons aren't calling folks to lunch!  I mean it is a call to armed defense for pete's sake.

Bear, redundant is good when lives are at stake. We could add a heavy metal band with amps cranked up to max at the beacon points, but them boys will need voltage and that wasn't invented yet.  

Actually, I like your fireworks suggestion (assuming Gandalf didn't have flares). The deal would be to calculate the farthest distance at which fireworks could be seen, then place firework stations accordingly.  Ahh, but that wouldn't work getting across those darn mountains. -- It also begs the question if the book-Gandalf had fireworks like his film counterpart.

Upon reflection, the beacon system backed up by relay horsemen would probably be the best. I would think the men at these lonely outposts would over time have the waxing and waning of the mountain cloud cover to as near a science as weather allows. An experienced beacon man should be able to guess fairly acurately if the clouds blanketing the range would lift in a reasonable amount of time to set the signal or not. If the clouds appear dug in for the day, a rider needs to be dispatched.  Like you Bear, I'd dispatch him either way because having to wait upon the clouds fancy while knowing that hostile ranks were on the move would make me crazy to be doing something.  

And a large horn - like the one at the Hornburg - would be nice too.

Seeing stones would be the best. What happened to those after the war?


-- Edited by Saba on Thursday 19th of August 2010 12:16:55 AM

lomoduin wrote:

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Also, who is Greg and why in all of Arda would he muck with Tokien's take on things to create a "Tolkien" based artifact? I don't mean to be rude or un-hospitaple but I can't imagine rewriting the works we love so much and spend so much time trying to master to fit our own purpose or need.

---

There was no rewriting of the works. The writings of the professor are regarded as canon. Everything we did was researched as thoroughly as possible and merely fills in gaps the professor left behind.

Greg is my friend, a master engraver, a medieval coin expert, and a Tolkien linguist. He was the most knowledgeable person I could find for help when I decided to create some Middle Earth coinage. Actually... he contacted me after he saw some of my first amateurish efforts and offered his expertise to help make them more authentic both designwise and linguistically.

 

-- Edited by Will Whitfoot on Friday 20th of August 2010 02:38:23 AM

-- Edited by lomoduin on Thursday 19th of August 2010 08:53:22 PM