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RANKING KINGDOMS → Tolkien Forums → General Lore disussion (standard) → From bad to good
 

Topic: From bad to good

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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jun 21, 2009
From bad to good
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Hi all

So many questions, so little gin.

Here's a quicky...

Melkor seduced maiar who were in awe and of like mind to him

Sauron himself seduced, inturn seduced Saruman to the wrong path.

Here comes the question

Is there a character within the works, that began evil yet switched sides, to the light?



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Glorfindel
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Jun 21, 2009
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Pretty sure there is not. The only example I can think of thats similar is Ungoliant. She disowned her Master, Melkor, and went off by her self. Certainly didn't turn to the good side though!

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Bear
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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Date: Jun 22, 2009
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Filli,
There is the story of King Theoden of Rohan who was corrupted by Grima Wormtongue who was an agent for Saruman.  Theoden was saved by Gandalf and Wormtongue sent back to his master.
Don't know if that counts as evil converted to good though.
Are you looking for someone who repents?
What do you think Glorfindel?

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mouth of sauron
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Jun 22, 2009
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Wormtongue is a close example. He starts good, goes bad, and ends up seemingly repenting.

Here is a big one - Gollum. Ok, he doesn't exactly go good in the end. But there is a time he comes very close to it when he sees Frodo and Sam sleeping not far from Shelob's Lair. Also, by the end of the story when Sam has Gollum at his mercy at Mt Doom, Gollum seems to accept his pitiful state:

Dont kill us, he wept. Dont hurt us with nassty cruel steel! Let us live, yes, live just a little longer. Lost lost! Were lost. And when Precious goes well die, yes, die into the dust. He clawed up the ashes of the path with his long fleshless fingers. Dusst! he hissed. LoTR, RoTK

This isn't him turning good though obviously. But he seems to accept that he is bound up with the fate of the Ring and that its life is his and that he has no choice but to cling onto it.

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ArwenLegolas
Tom Bombadil
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Date: Jun 27, 2009
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Now there is one other thing. He was not bad to begin with, bad briefly abandoned his master and then he repented and returned and was forgiven. I am speaking of course about Osse, a maia in service to Ulmo. It is said that he had created several sea monters during his time away from Ulmo, and that the watcher in the water was one of his creatures.

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lomoduin
Rohirrim of Edoras - Rank 4
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Date: Jun 27, 2009
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This question is an interesting one to me. It has a lot of implications. I've been trying to think of any character in a well written, solid story that has gone from bad to good. I'm not talking Walt Disney, more like ****ens or some other classic author. I can't come up with one. I wonder if one could really ever go bad to good. I mean truly in their hearts and without lapse of character or judgement? Or is the seed always there, the lion always only barely in the cage?

-- Edited by lomoduin on Saturday 27th of June 2009 04:49:08 AM

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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Date: Jun 28, 2009
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Hi All

In Philp Jose Farmer's Riverworld books ( brilliant ! ). The author made a very brave writing choice.

He wrote of Herman Goering (Nazi) choosing a path of second chance redemption.

I understand that this is very sensative and perhaps not in good taste.
The books followed the concept, that mankind in its totality was resurrected, to try to atain a level of ethical achievement.

The Herman Goering character, although not a major one doesn't actualy achieve this ethical level but manages only to try.

What a wonderful twist to tolkiens world, if only one orc just one.......perhaps a freak by his own kind......changed his ways

The story of "fallling from glory" by way of lust or temptatiojn etc has been retold many times in many forms.

I'd love to see a fallen angel work his way back to heaven and be accepted.....
Perhaps Milton would have wrote this, but he couldn't really be bothered

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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jun 28, 2009
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Hi Guys

I was working the corner at a boxing function last night.

Ten fights......I'm knackered.





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Glorfindel
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Jun 29, 2009
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ArwenLegolas wrote:
I am speaking of course about Osse, a maia in service to Ulmo. It is said that he had created several sea monters during his time away from Ulmo, and that the watcher in the water was one of his creatures.
Hmm thats very interesting Arwen...do you have any sources for that? I've never heard of this suggested theory for the origin of the Watcher in the Water.

How did you get on in the fights Filli?

 



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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!
Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jun 30, 2009
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Hi all

The boxing was grand...all the boxers did well and nobody was hurt.

Raised 3 grand for charity...thats pounds...probably 3000000 in dollars or something.

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Bilbo Baggins
Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
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Date: Jun 30, 2009
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What charity did it go to Filli?
Usually £3000 would equal around $6000 but at the moment its very unstable.

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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jul 1, 2009
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Hi Bilbo

The main charity we sponsor is Footsteps

http://www.footsteps.ltd.uk/

The coach and gym owner has done a lot for these guys.

I like them, they do good stuff



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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 217
Date: Jul 1, 2009
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Yeah
Forgot about Osse

I think that nails it...Osse nearly went over to the other side.

The elves love him, but don't trust him.

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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jul 10, 2009
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Hi All

Well we all missed an obvious one here !

The forgotton ones from the Paths of the Dead.

They repented and fought for the light, earning their eternal rest.

I suppose we all forgot this due to the mental block that the rubbish army in the films gave us.

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lomoduin
Rohirrim of Edoras - Rank 4
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Date: Jul 10, 2009
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Did they really turn from their ways or was the alliance fulfilled through a selfish need?
Do motives factor into the deed?

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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jul 10, 2009
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They did good

nuff said.

Mind you, the film sucked at that point

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lomoduin
Rohirrim of Edoras - Rank 4
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Date: Jul 10, 2009
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What's the line from the Pirates movies? Something along the lines of one good deed isn't enough to absolve a man of a life time of bad deeds. I thought Aaragorn in the movies was a bit weepy, myself.

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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jul 10, 2009
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Aragorn in the movies was so weak

It was as if greatness was thrust upon him

He was born great.....he accepted it.....and done his best

His best was enough...yet he was just a man

I like this  !


It brings me back to romantic notions!

To do your best.......it's enough 

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lomoduin
Rohirrim of Edoras - Rank 4
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Date: Jul 12, 2009
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Ahhh.

The forbidden love afair.

The noble deed.

The loped off orc heads on spears.

What more could a girl want?

wink


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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jul 12, 2009
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Shoes!

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Bear
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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Date: Jul 12, 2009
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Oh Lordy!
"Shoes!"
lol

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Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Jul 12, 2009
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Never underestimate the power of shoes, when it comes to the fairer sex.

Oh and matching csushions and curtains...they're important too

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Bear
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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Date: Jul 12, 2009
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I am taking notes.
"Curtains and cushions"?
Is this kind of like "flowers and candy"?

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Bear
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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Posts: 2960
Date: Jul 12, 2009
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All,
Trying to take us back to subject I would like to pose a question.
Does Gimli change from bad to good?
Where do the dwarves fit in on bad to good?
Thorin Oakenshield?
Mim?
What about good to bad?

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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit
Called or uncalled, God is present
Filli
Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 217
Date: Jul 12, 2009
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Hmmmm

Interesting, Dwarves certainly are more nuetral than elves. They have their own agenda...

Mim I don't think was evil, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, having your son killed was not evil.

Turins adventures offer somthing different......they offer grey. Neither black or white.

To be honest, Turin's actions led to evil....perhaps not his fault...but he shadow of Morgoths thought was on him.

As for Mim....I always felt sorry for the wee guy.  As for the betryal of Turin and his followers, I can understand why. Infact Turin deserved it.

Perhaps Turins gang of outlaws, went from bad to good...in a grey way

-- Edited by Filli on Sunday 12th of July 2009 07:24:13 PM

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