Hey, I'm just a quiet fan who was content to read Tolkien every year or so, then these movies came out... Oh well.
So I though I'd stop in with the burning questions of import (on the irreverent level of Gandalf's steam locomotive fireworks.) Now I'm off to talk about Trotter.
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
I wanted my screen name to be "Bilbo's Boots," with the possessive, but it didn't seem to want to accept the apostrophe character.
Anyways, all a little play on Tolkien wanting Bilbo to pick up boots in Rivendell. I love stuff like that. Hobbit shoes! (Could have used that name.)
-- Edited by Bilbo Boots at 18:02, 2008-01-24
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
Welcome Bilbo Boots! I am glad to have somebody I can get to know from the start. My name is Arwen and I am glad to meet you. How did youo find our little corner of Middle-earth?
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Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!
I found the forum (among others) while looking for places to ask my oddball sorta scholarly questions. I think I need to ask Christina Scull, who edited a bunch of books. She's got an article or two that deal with the changes and origins of names like "Trotter" that're kinda interesting to me.
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
Christina Scull took a few pages to look at the evolution of Aragorn in her 'What Did He Know and When Did He Know it? Planning, Inspiration, and The Lord of the Rings' article, published in the book in honor of Richard Blackwelder. Unless I missed something she didn't say anything specifically about the reason for the name change there. But you probably knew that!
Hello
Not sure, but if you are looking for a comment on your signature I would say 'in a letter', though I can't seem to find (so far) mention of the 'booting' Tolkien refers to in that letter, in Rateliff's new History of The Hobbit.
Tolkien seems certain enough in letter 27 (1938): 'There is in the text no mention of his acquiring of boots. There should be! It has dropped out somehow or other in the various revisions -- the booting occured at Rivendell; and he was once again bootless after leaving Rivendell on the way home.'
I couldn't find any mention of the boots in the early chapter concerned, and in chapter 'Gollum' a fish touched Bilbo's toe, and it felt cold and clamy. There is a pastel 'Barrel-rider' (by Tolkien) where Bilbo might be wearing no footwear, but the finished drawing shows boots! Hammond and Scull note another drawing by JRRT where Bilbo is wearing boots, and mention it was a mistake that no mention of his acquiring them appears in the book.
There might be some mention in The History of The Hobbit, however, as I haven't come close to reading the whole thing yet. It may even be that the reference was too lost to show up for mention even in Rateliff's book, I don't know.
I should add that the pastel and the 'finished' drawing are two different drawings, as they appear to be. The pastel being a sketch as opposed to the other 'finished' version, is what I meant.
I couldn't find the Trotter name-change info In the Blackwelder book, but Wayne G. Hammond & Christina Scull just responded to a note with a probable answer:
"Christopher mentions this on p. 78 of Sauron Defeated. It was a relatively late change, in the third manuscript of parts of Book VI, though still some years before The Lord of the Rings entered the publication phase. In our Chronology volume of the Companion and Guide, we date this (as best we can) to the period ?August 194end of August 1950."
So there's an answer! Now all I have to do is find my copy of that volume of the History, since I've moved three times since I last saw it!
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
There doesn't seem to be an indication of why in Chronology though.
'Some time after he finishes The Lord of the Rings proper and has already written much of its background material, Tolkien makes new, very fine (third) manuscripts of four chapers: (edit names of chapters). It is only in these, by emendation, that he abandons the name 'Trotter', and Aragorn finally becomes 'Strider'. These now approach the published work closely, but Tolkien will continue to emend succeeding typescripts and, as with the whole of The lord of the Rings, even in the galley and page proofs.'
H&S Chronology
It's not the sort of thing (the reason why) Tolkien would necessarily note to himself, so maybe we can only guess if nothing turns up.
Edit: Oh, if you meant Sauron Defeated rather, I couldn't find anything there where Trotter or Tarantar appear.
I'm still waiting to get my hands on Sauron Defeated again to check the reference. It does look like unless we get some input from new sources the all-important Trotter-Strider name change remains a mystery. And I was always hoping for a note from an editor, "Hey John, Trotter's a silly name for a king." or something.
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
Good find Galin... Indeed also the Letters offer no information at all, only at one point mentioning that Trotter was Aragorn's initial name. As far as this silly idea is concerned, I guess it may well not be that war off from the truth after all. In this time Tolkien seemed to move away from the rather childish stuff in the Hobbit and use a more serious approach. And clearly Trotter as a name didn't really fit in this more serious book.
Sauron Defeated is Vol 9 of HoME I think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_The_Lord_of_the_Rings
Also available in the "cheater" version of just the four volumes (vols 6-9) of the History that deal with the Lord of the Rings. That version comes as three full-size volumes and a little sliver of a volume that's the part of HoME, vol 9 that deals with Sauron being Defeated. The rest of vol 9 in the "full" version is about Atlantis and the fall of Numenor I think.
As I stated above, Wayne G. Hammond & Christina Scull responded to a note with a probable answer: (I haven't been able to check this yet.)
"Christopher mentions this on p. 78 of Sauron Defeated. It was a relatively late change, in the third manuscript of parts of Book VI, though still some years before The Lord of the Rings entered the publication phase. In our Chronology volume of the Companion and Guide, we date this (as best we can) to the period ?August 194end of August 1950."
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
I have it on order from our local library, so I'm ok. How big a file is it?
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
I checked p. 78. H&S appear to refer to the last part of note 4 to Homeward Bound which reads...
4 '(...) - Trotter and Cosimo survived into the third manuscript C and were only then changed to Strider and Lotho; Barnabas survived into the final typescript and was corrected on that to Barliman.'
Ahh, an answer at last. Such as it is. I guess I wanted the in-depth reasoning for such a deeply important change in the mythos. But since I didn't catch it when I read the History, I do thank you for finding where the change was at least acknowledged. That sets my troubled mind to rest.
Now I'll just have to imagine that story-conference where Tolkien said to himself, "Hmm, Trotter's out. Maybe...Galloper... Jogger... Stepper..." You know it went like that.
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
I'm feeling content with our Trotter-Strider research wing for now.
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Where was I reading (the Annotated Hobbit?) that Tolkien wanted Bilbo to put on boots in Rivendell for the trip over the mountains, but it got left out? Hobbits would have shoes, but they forgot!
