Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
 

Topic: Dagor Dagorath

Post Info
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date: Sep 3, 2007
Dagor Dagorath

first of all hi!, I've just joined and I'm looking for some info / theories concering Dagor Dagorath.

the prophesy of this fianl battle between Manwe and Morgoth where the world is unmade fascinates me.

I havn't got much hard info or any quotes at the moment but the things i do know are:

Morgoth will return and be defeated
Ar-Pharazon and his army will be awoken from the Caves of the forgotten
Arda will be unmade.

now these are all rough facts that i've gatherd and what I'm looking for is theories, ideas, any other info!

/disscus!


__________________
Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
Status: Offline
Posts: 1109
Date: Sep 3, 2007
Well there have been many discussions over this on this site. I doubt its possible to include everything they say in this thread but here are some links:

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=77580&p=3&topicID=11506531

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=77580&p=3&topicID=8020688

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=77580&p=3&topicID=8153543

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=77580&p=3&topicID=7008496

And there are a few others if you use the forums search.

__________________
You want it for Yourself!
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date: Sep 3, 2007
thanks alot :)

very intresting reading! allthough i does make me wish that Tolkien was still alive, i would deffinatley like to have a good chat with him about some of the questions he has left unanswerd!

and it was very intresting to find out that Turin will deal the death blow!

__________________
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Sep 5, 2007
Well as its said it was a very lightly covered area and its by no means certain that the tale favoured Turin giving Melkor the Death blow. However what has been posted in those threads is generally accepted.

__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
Status: Offline
Posts: 564
Date: Sep 6, 2007
Ingwe wrote: the prophesy of this fianl battle between Manwe and Morgoth where the world is unmade fascinates me.

It might be added that the Second Prophecy of Mandos (specifically) was seemingly abandoned by JRRT. Note that HME IV & HME V represent early texts on this matter, generally written in the 1930s. The often quoted version beginning: 'Thus spake Mandos in Prophecy... (edit)... to Turin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar' can be found § 31, 32 of The Quenta Silmarillion, HME V.

Working from HME X, XI, XII however, one gets a later view, if rather confused. Christopher Tolkien concluded, in any case, that it was not to be thought of as coming from Mandos.
'Here ends The Valaquenta. If it has passed from the high and the beautiful to sadness and ruin, that was of old the fate of Arda Marred; and if any change shall come and the Marring be amended, Manwë and Varda may know; but they have not revealed it, and it is not declared in the dooms of Mandos.' JRRT

The Second Prophecy of Mandos (V. 333) had now therefore definitively disappeared. This passage was used to form a conclusion to the published Silmarillion (p. 255).'
CJRT

It is to be noted that JRR Tolkien never did a substantial rewrite of the end of the Quenta Silmarillion of the 1930s, specifically the passage in question. Later Tolkien did make cursory corrections to the (now) 'old version', however Christopher warns that these revisions need not imply 'any sort of final approval of the content' (see his reasons in HME XI, The Later Quenta Silmarillion). In any case, these revisions include:

'Turin Turambar... coming from the halls of Mandos' (changed to) 'Turin Turambar... returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world'. In the margin JRRT wrote 'and Beren Camlost' without direction for its insertion.

'and she will break them [The Silmarils] and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees' emended to 'and he [Feanor] will break them and with their fire will rekindle the Two Trees.'

Aprroximately against the last two sentences of the paragraph (from 'In that light the Gods will grow young again...') Tolkien put a large X in the margin of the manuscript. There is also the introduction of a further subheading The Second Prophecy of Mandos.


-- Edited by Galin at 22:26, 2007-09-06

__________________
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date: Sep 7, 2007
Thanks for that Galin, a very intresting read :)



__________________
 
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.



Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard