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Topic: A film of The Silmarillion

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Oct 4, 2006
A film of The Silmarillion

I have heard rumour that PJ may be thinking of doing this. Can anyone confirm it and any opinions on it?


BTW - please don't bring up the subject of 'PJ could not even create a good lotr let alone this'...



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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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I thought he was thinking about doing a film about Numenor next. After the Hobbit.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I though he gave up making ME movies...I dunno
but, I think I read somewhere that he isn't in the mood to continue with this stuff after sacrificing so much time for lotr
anyway, lotr was ok, and it was what it was meant to be - a movie based on the book

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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You would think he would want to do more seeing as lotr was the best film ever made (that is a world fact not just a fanatics opinion). I would really like to have a film of the Silmarillion, seeing the Valar and Morgoth etc in phisical form.

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Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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I don't think it will make it far. It would be very hard to capture the magic of the Silmarillion, if its even posible. The valar, maiar, and the awakining of Elves and men would be so dificult in my mind that they would not try it. But, if they did try it, it would suck. Nobody could capture the full magic of Sil.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Perhaps not. But think about it - for PJs first attemp of LOTR he did not do a bad attemp. Now he knows of the mistakes he made during the flm and of what people liked most about it he has more experience in making another Tolkien film. And with the special effects these days perhaps if he made it it would be a film that the world would be in awe at...



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I agree with mos on this one.
Special effects these days do seem to men like Elvish magic to the Hobbits.
It wouldn't be easy of course, but I think people would be eager to see the film.

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Isn't the Hobbit due to hit theatres this year? I heard saw a rumor on the net that PJ was thinking of making a film about Numenor and then possibly the Silmarillion. Sounds like he is working backwards.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Soldier of Beleriand - Rank 3
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Maybe it's immature of me, but I would prefer not to see The Silmarillion on film...ever. I would like something to remain sacred for the people who put in the time and effort to read the books. The Hobbit would be an easy and pleasing movie, I'm sure, but I'd like something left behind for us hardcore fans that not everyone can gain access to simply by sitting in front of a television for two hours.

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Well now I feel like a complete idiot. I had only glanced at the trailer for the Hobbit and since no one responded to my post I looked into it.

Yep, its a fake and I suppose most of you had a good laugh. Ha. PJ should still do it.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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It would be a very expensive movie if it worked out. And, even though better jugment tells me otherwise, I would still watch it. I am one to watch movies just to see explosions and specieal efects.


Glorfindel1235, are yous shore that this is for real. Celethil already proved that you can be mistaken.



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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Well he did say 'He thinks', so...


Perhaps it would be better as another trilogy, or at least a duo film, or even a short 4 part world wide TV series.



-- Edited by mouth of sauron at 10:21, 2006-10-05

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Soldier of Beleriand - Rank 3
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Peter Jackson is considering doing a movie, but no more. In this article I found, it says that MGM keeps talking about getting him to make The Hobbit, but no one has actually contacted him about it yet. I can't find the original article, but this one is basically the same thing:

http://reelfanatic.blogspot.com/2006/09/finally-peter-jacksons-hobbit.html

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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yeah Celethil, I saw that one as well
it's only LOTR scenes + some forest and moon pics + scenes from a Disney film with a dragon...

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
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I am split on the side of Silmarillion the movie. I admit i would love to see it, to see how the director and screen writer saw it in their head and compare it to how i have it in my head. I would think they would have to do it in another trilogy though, way to much would be left out if it was even a 3 hour movie. You could start with an introduction about Iluvatar, and how the valar and maia came to be along with EA, and go through to the awakening of the elves in the first movie. The second part would be the elves when the noldor left to Beleriand up to the arival of men. The third part would start with the numenor and on to the end.

The bad part of course is i have yet to see a movie that was as good as the book.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I could definitely imagine a monologue in the beginning just like Galadriel in the beginning of LOTR, telling the story of the creation of Ea, and Arda, all the way to the Awakening of the Elves, maybe even further
Then normal action would follow but it would be VERY hard to make such a movie because you have so many storylines in it.
If movies will ever be made they will be made from a Hollywoodian perspective just like LOTR, adding somethings and changing others to get more cash
I would definitely expect that the fild of the Sil would be a much more simplified version of the book
Maybe a film on Numenor and its Dowfall would be easier, starting with the End of the War of Wrath, telling the story of Numenor, and then ending with its Downfall
But this is another problem...it might be deemed too much of a fairy-tale story and with too little action
When you have a story taking place over thousands of years and characters coming and going it is not easy for some viewers to understand and also not too much action you can offer
Due to this I would have 2 ideas:
1. A movie might be made, but very different from our aspectations
2. A maybe better idea a series could be started with each episode coresponding to a chapter of the Sil, that way it would be easier to understand it in the whole context
...just an idea ~TM

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Men of Numenor - Rank 1
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Even if it is made into a film, it would be incomplete; even if the plot starts from the Creation to the Downfall of Morgoth. The story is too deep to squash into a 3-hour film. If a script is created and made film, it wouldn't be able to show the true meaning of the story.

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Finrod Felagund
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Exactly, so the only good way to do it is a series
Problem is a series usually is only brodacasted on TV and definitely doesn't bring as much money as movie
And a low budget film or series would definitely not be that good either because you need pretty many special effects for the Sil as well
So even though theoretically a movie could be done I doubt anyone would take the risk...it's much safer to make The Hobbit, the story is not incredibly long, people already know stuff about ME and Bilbo so you don't need to make so many references to events in the past such as the Last Alliance, Elrond is also known, only more interesting things will probably be Beorn, Mirkwood, Laketown and the Lonely Mountain
And if it has a large enough budget it can definitely turn out to be great...I just hope they'll make it soon, it's been a long time since ROTK came out

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Men of Numenor - Rank 1
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Yep. I totally agree with what you said The Might. The Hobbit would be way much better to do in film (not because of the story, but how the movie is filmed).

Thanks.

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Finrod Felagund
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Admittedly a single film would not nearly be enough to contain the tre majesty of the Silmarillion. But although a TV series would be better in that respect it has other more fatal flaws. For starters it wouldn't be in Cinema's. Secondly I cannot recall a TV series which has been played on Televisions around the world at the same time.


A trilogy would be ideal I think. The films would be a similar length to that of Lord of the Rings. 10 hours would be enough i think to include the following:


Film 1



  • A 30 minute prior film beginning with Iluvatar and the Ainur and the creation of Ea. Like Galadriel did when she spoke at the very beggining of the FOTR about the Rings of Power. They could show Eru speaking to the Ainur and perhaps delve a bit further into it.

  • About another 30 minutes on The Ainur's decent into Ea and about Melkor's marring and the destruction of the Pillars of Light.

  • Then have a tale about the splitting of Arda into the 3 seperate continents and about the Dwarves and the Tree's of Light and the first Ents that were sent into Arda by Eru. (40 min)

  • Of Utumno and the throne of Morgoth and the building of Angband. (30 min)

  • A tale about the coming of the Firstborn, the Elves and there life in the East of Middle-earth. And how Melkor captured some and tortured them into Orcs. (35 min)

  • Lastly finishing with an epic battle when Utumno was broken and Melkor taken to Valinor and imprisoned in the Halls of Mandos. (40 min)

Total time - 215 minutes / 3.5 hours


Film 2



  • Of the coming of the Elves into the West led by Orome and of Elwe and Melian. (15 min)

  • Of the Elves establishing there realms in the West with the Valar. (15 min)

  • Of Feanor and the Silmarils and the unchaining of Melkor. (20 min)

  • Perhaps an elaborated version of how Melkor is finally unchained, causes distrust amoung the Eldar and seeks Ungoliant and how he destroys the Tree's of Light (this could be done really well). (30 min)

  • Of Morgoth's return into Middle-earth and his struggle with Ungoliant. (15 min)

  • Of the rebel Feanor, a battle of the kinslaying at Alqualonde and the depart of the Noldor. (30 min)

  • Of the burning of the ships and the coming of the Noldor into the East. (10 min)

  • Of the Realms of Beleriand (Gondolin, Nargothrond and its fall, of Doriath and the Dwarven fortress of the Ered-luin. (40 min)

  • Of the first 2 battles of Beleriand and the death of Feanor. (40 min)

Total time - 225 minutes / 3.5 hours

Film 3



  • Of the Third battle of Beleriand and the victory of the Noldor and the league of Angband. (20 min)

  • Of Beren and Luthien (40 min)

  • Of Turin Turambar and his tragic tale. (40 min)

  • Of the Fourth Battle of Beleriand and Fingolfin's death. (15 min)

  • Of the Fifth Battle, the most tragic of the Lot. (20 min)

  • The ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Doriath and Gondolin and the death of Thingol and Turgon. (40 min)

  • Of Earendil journey into the West and his plea to the Powers. (10 min)

  • An absolute major battle on the War of Wrath and Melkor taken into the West and cast through the Door of Night. (30 min)

Total time - 215 minutes / 3.5 hours


Perhaps then sperate 3 hour films made of:


* The Downfall of Numenor,

* Of Middle-earth and the rise of Sauron whilst Numenor was growing and the creation of the Rings of Power. Including the remainding Numenoreans coming over the Sea from there destruction and building realms in Middle-earth. Ending with the Last alliance.

* A film on the Coming of the Istari in the Third Age and the rising threat of Angmar on Arnor and the White council and Sauron in Dol Guldar ending with the destruction of the three kingdoms of Arnorkingdoms of Arnor.


* A film of the Hobbit - very neat and quite easy and very profitable if they use the same actors and do not change Middle-earth from how PJ did it.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Even though it would be possible, I doubt some things could be really done, such as Turin Turambar in 40 minutes...impossible...plus, as I said his whole life in 40 minutes would probably seem more like a documentary then a fantasy movie

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
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I like how MoS breaks down in three parts for the movies.  As far as the turin story goes, I think that an hour would be necessary, but you could probably shave minutes from other parts to accomadate this.  The two scenes that i keep imagining coming to life on screen that i would look most forward to are 1) the fight between Fingolfin and Morgoth and 2) the war of wrath, which with all the special effects these days i think if done right could go down as one of the great battle scenes of all time. 


Also, keeping the same actors for galadriel and elrond would help bridge over for those who have not read the book.   



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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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TM - I believe your thinking of 40 mins in terms of 40 mins from LoTR. However in LOTR they were constantly flicking back and forward to Frodo and Sam, then Gandalf, then Theoden etc. 40 min based solely on Turin I think you could get it in.


Key scenes would be:


Eru and the Ainur,


The Trees of Light,

The terror of Utumno and Angband,

Fingolfin vs Morgoth,


The War of Wrath could indeed be a truly immesurable battle. Becuase we have no idear how many troops fought in that battle (but I know its in the 100s of thousands or more) a film director could really go to town with it.
We know a standard host army of Morgoth was about 100 000 Orcs so the whole lot in Thangorodrim and Angband must be reaching near the 500-700 thousand mark or more. And the Valar probably have a few hundred thousand Elves fighting to.

Imagine that! Perhaps up to 1.5 million fighting on one plain - 35 times more than on the Field of Pellenor!



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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
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The Tolkien Estate holds the rights to The Silmarillion.


And note their recent statement concerning The Children of Húrin, for example...



'The rights in The Children of Húrin are owned by the Tolkien family via the Tolkien Estate, and the book rights have been sold in a worldwide deal to the Tolkien publishers HarperCollinsUK. There are no plans for the foreseeable future to license any other rights in the work (whether film or otherwise).'


Galin


 



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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Well isn't that great...

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Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
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Another thing that i wanted to see better done in LoTR movies that i would really like to see in a sil movie would be the weapons.  Especial gurthang, make it something memerable.  I LoTR sting was the only one that stood out i think because it glowed, narsil/(holy crud, i can't believe i am drawing a blank on aragorns sword) really didnt do much for me, looked like a plain old weapon.  The sword i like the most in LoTR was actually Arwen's, i liked the shape of it.  Just a small thing but sometimes its the little stuff that makes the movies.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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yep one thing that was wrong is that Glamdring didn't shine, even though it was supposed
I can't really say other swords were not so good, I personally liked them
I found Gimli's larger axe a bit funny, but nothing more
I always like Theoden's sword though

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Well Aragorns' Anduril was not meant to shine or nothing. It was just meant to look impressive and to me it did - I love the Hilt on it.


And Glamdring did shine but not all the time.

It shined when Gandalf was holding it when he was telling Pippin 'Death is just another path...'. I believe it also shined in Moria some time as well.


I look forward to seeing Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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if a movie will ever be made
still Gandalf's sword didn't shine on many occasions when it should have, for example at the Black Gate

I thought the weapons of the Easterlings lookes interesting...and I guess they would be quite efficient against cavalry

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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I have to agree with The Secret Fire. Let's keep The Silmarillion to ourselves.

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Rick Nagy
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I think everyone should be able to enjoy it. Some people have trouble reading something like the sil, its not an easy read for most. Id love for everyone to get to see Tolkien's magic the way we have

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Two very different but perhaps equally worthy opinions. Will releasing The Silmarillion in film-format open it up to everyone and increase the Middle-earth fan base considerably? Or will they do a hatchet job of it and taint it's currently well respected status as a great book by fans?

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Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
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My 2 cents ...

There should be no Silmarillion movie ... but rather lots of movies ...

There are so many diverse stories ... anybody in accord with that?

Which of the stories of the Silmarillion should they do first ... The Fall of Numenor ... The Struggles of the Children of Hurin ... The War of the Jewels ...

Help me folks ... name some more!



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Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
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I think The Fall of Numenor and any other stuff from the Second Age would have to be kept seperate.

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Guard of Armenelos - Rank 4
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I agree about a series of smaller venues for each tale of the Silmarillion. I think the scene in "When Celeborn met Galadriel" when she fakes an orgasm in the diner at Aqualonde will go down in film history...oh wait! "I'll have what she's having..." Never mind. Been done.

On a serious note there are so many stories, to commit to stringing the whole film together would mean a lot of sacrificed material. A smaller set of series would be more effective in keeping true to the text. I have a copy of Dante's inferno the animated movie, based on the video game. The best thing about it was that there was six different directors handling the different circles of The Inferno. Each director brought their own edgy style to the one story and each one had its own appeal and yet the story flowed. The only thing one could wish for, further than someone would make a Silmarillion series, is that the director(s) try to pick up seamlessly where the previous director left off making it possible to view the set like reading the book. If your into the whole chronological thing...

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