Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
 

Topic: More than just a man?

Post Info
Valar
Status: Offline
Posts: 120
Date: Dec 16, 2006
More than just a man?

Well of course he was more than man but how much? Aragorn that is. He had been raised by Elrond who was half-elf, he married elf, he was dunedain who maybe had little gift with foresight. My question is: what's your opinion about Aragorn and how far he was to be considered as 'normal man'? One example to start our discussion:


'I will,' said Aragorn heavily. `You followed my lead almost to disaster in the snow, and have said no word of blame. I will follow your lead now – if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware! ' LotR


 


Was Aragorn gifted with foresight?



-- Edited by Lord Tulkas at 10:14, 2006-12-16

__________________
I am Tulkas the Valiant who laughs ever in the face of Good or Evil.
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Firstly, it is important to say that he was definitely not the only person in ME to have such a gift.

For example Aragorn seems to already know what will happen during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields:

‘That road I will take, nonetheless,’ said Aragorn. ‘But I say to you, Éomer, that in battle we may yet meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor should stand between.’

When meeting Éomer after the battle, Aragorn remembers about his words:

‘Thus we meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor lay between us,’ said Aragorn. ‘Did I not say so at the Hornburg?’
‘So you spoke,’ said Éomer, ‘but hope oft deceives, and I knew not then that you were a man foresighted. …’

Halbarad, also a Ranger from the North, says when entering the Paths of the Dead:

‘This is an evil door,’ said Halbarad, ‘and my death lies beyond it…’

He is correct, as he did die in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

Also Dirhael, the grandfather of Aragorn, and father of Gilraen, his mother says:

“Arathorn is a stern man of full age, and will be chieftain sooner than men looked for; yet my heart forebodes mat he will be shortlived.”

And he is right, as Arathorn died young.

His wife seems to have the same gift:

‘But Ivorwen, his wife, who was also foresighted, answered: “The more need of haste! The days are darkening before the storm, and great things are to come. If these two wed now, hope may be born for our people; but if they delay, it will not come while this age lasts.”

Again, it is underlined that Gilraen, and here people had this gift:

‘“Then bitter will my days be, and I will walk in the wild alone,” said Aragorn.

‘“That will indeed be your fate,” said Gilraen; but though she had in a measure the foresight of her people, she said no more to him of her foreboding, nor did she speak to any one of what her son had told her.

The origin of this power is made clear when Aragorn talks to Elrond:

Then suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him, and he said: “But lo! Master Elrond, the years of your abiding run short at last, and the choice must soon be laid on your children, to part either with you or with Middle-earth.”

Clearly, as far Aragorn is concerned, this gift was inherited from the line of his mother. Halbarad, also a Dunedain, might have been related to Aragorn, so this would explain the presence of this gift in his case.

Thing is, they are NOT the only people in ME to have this gift:
Frodo also has a vision about Gandalf escaping from Orthanc, Glorfindel is the one who made the prophecy about the WK, and Malbeth the Seer who lived in the last years of the realm of Arthedain. Gifted with foresight, he predicted events of the near and far future. He saw that Arvedui would be Arthedain's last King, and predicted Aragorn's passage of the Paths of the Dead, though it lay a thousand years in his own future.

Clearly, there is no way to exactly say how it is the gift of foresight works, what influenced it, or where it came from.
It is however safe to say that Aragorn was no usual Man.



__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Dec 16, 2006

I do not think that Aragorn was gifted with forsight. We here of little, if not anything about this happening down the line of the kings and peoples of Numenor.


The most I would say is that we know Aragornlived far longer than normal Men, though still not long compared to lets say Elros. Also he probably was a little Far-sighted (no where near as Legolas though). Also he has the wisdom of the old men of Arnor.


I cannot think of any other 'unusual gifts' Aragorn may have.



__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Hmm...well, the quotes say differently however...
It seems that Aragorn inherited this gift from his mother, but fact is that his mother has the same descendancy of his father.
They both descended from Aranarth, the first Chieftain of the Dunedain, who himself was a descendant of Isildur. So clearly, it does have something to do with the line of kings.
And let us not forget Tar-Palantir, the last faithful King of Numenor, who also was said to have this power...I am not sure if others in the line of Numenor or Arnor had it as well, perhaps more quotes could shed more light

__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Dec 16, 2006

I suppose it depends on what one would class as 'foresight'. To me it is to be able to tell the futre far in advance, not merely to forbode that something bad will happen and hour before it does.



__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Is one thousand years not long enough?
Aragorn might have suspected that things will come to pass this way, he was a smart guy. It was indeed easy for him to suspect that he and Eomer would meet again, since they both had the same destination, though by different paths.
And the same might be said about other cases as well...
But what about Glorfindel, or Frodo, or Malbeth the Seer...there is no such easy explanation in their case.

__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2372
Date: Dec 18, 2006

I would not say Foresight does not exist (I don't think Glorfindel is either). I would say Glorfindel indeed does possess foresight, for he said that the Witchking would not be slain by the hand of a Man.


However I do agree with Glorfindel on account of Aragorn. From what I read in LOTR I would say that any dubbed 'foresight' Aragorn gave was merely educated guesswork at an outcome of limited options.



__________________
My Master Sauron the Great bids thee Welcome....
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: Dec 18, 2006
However if Tolkien calls it foresight, I will tend to agree with him, in Aragorn's case as well.

__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Dec 23, 2006
Of course. Perhaps Tolkien's view of Foresight is different from others.

__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: Dec 23, 2006
I don't however believe that his view is very different from the general opinion on foresight.
The way it seems to work is not different at all. People are able to predict events in the future, some that happen soon, others that happen after a thousand years.
The only more interesting aspect is that foresight seems to be inherited.

__________________
Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
Status: Offline
Posts: 87
Date: Dec 29, 2006

yeah, and it's bloody handy as well for what to do for the future.


i do think he was the half-elven restored to their former glory (unlike a certain other grumpy half-elven)



__________________
Join today, and you will be richly rewarded http://dualfaction.com/forum/index.php
Guard of Armenelos - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 754
Date: Aug 11, 2011

I would say that Aragorn was an extremely intelligent man. Being long-lived would have given him an advantage for one but also he went under other names and had many adventures, so he had a great amount of experience.
Being also raised among the elves would've given him an advantage as well. I believe his foresight was given through knowledge of things in the world and knowing the minds of some of those he faced making it easier for him to determine which way things will pan out.

For instance: When it came to his warning to Gandalf should he choose the path through Moria, he was well versed and aware of what my be waiting in the darkness of Khazad-Dum (Studying under the tutelage of the Lore Master himself; Elrond Half-elven). Only he and Gandalf would've had any knowledge of the existence of the Balrog of those in the Fellowship. Therefore Aragorn knew that should they face the creature of Shadow and Flame, Gandalf would be the only one who might match it. Gandalf would not have flown in the face of that danger and from knowing Gandalf for at least 60 years (Since that's how long He and the Dunedain watched the borders of the Shire and not to mention hunting for Gollum), Aragorn would easily deduce that Gandalf would fight the Balrog to at least save the Quest.

That's my thought on Aragorn's foresight. It's like he had a mathematical approach to situations as they presented themselves, which included a remarkable assessment of character. He plugged the numbers in along with environment and circumstance, Presto! Predicton. I feel that this theory was more prevalent and honed in Gandalf, thus the mind-struggle he has with Denethor and Saruman.



-- Edited by Jaidoprism7 on Thursday 11th of August 2011 03:45:02 AM

__________________
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2960
Date: Aug 11, 2011

What about the "Paths of the Dead?"  And his release of the dead at Minas Tirith? Foresight?

Was it foresight or just plain old courage to march to the Black Gate?

Maybe foresight means nothing without hope and faith.

Aragorn was more than just a man.  He was the "best of man".



__________________

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit
Called or uncalled, God is present

Guard of Armenelos - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 754
Date: Aug 14, 2011
That's a good point Bear.

Aragorn always knew about the old prophecy about the Paths of the Dead. Elrond versed him on it and his sons Elladan and Elrohir reminded him upon of it upon the road back to Edoras after their visit to Isengard post Helm's Deep battle. It was his absolute courage and utmost need that drove him there however. I think he also proved himself a brilliant military thinker (A trait of any good King) by emptying his forces and challenging Sauron before his own Gates, drawing His attention away from the Ring Bearer.

He was indeed all aspects of the best qualities of man. Therefore more than just a man!

__________________
 
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.



Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard