Im not sure why this is being posted in Man-Lore. Since it is 'Utterly Miscellaneous'.
Nevertheless this does look like fun. Beleg Cuthalion is surprisingly missing from this roster. Oh well...
First they would group together by loyalties: Feanor and Maedhros; Fingolfin, Ecthelion, Finrod, and Glorfindel; Thingol and Mablung.
Thingol immediately goes for Feanor because of the kinslaying, Feanor is more than willing and challenges Fingolfin as well, who is more than willing to go at his brother because of the Helcaraxe. Thingol's assault on the High King is not unnoticed, so Ecthelion and Glorfindel go after him and his guard Mablung. Maedhros challenges Finrod and calls him a coward for standing with Turgon.
Finrod is the first to fall as he is overmatched. The battle with Feanor against Fingolfin and Thingol rages on, Thingol is only surviving because of the aid of Fingolfin, though he finds himself pressed with Mablung by Ecthelion and Glorfindel. Mablung falls next. Maedhros joins his father and attacks Thingol, who is now beset by Ecthelion and Glorfindel as well. Thingol falls.
Feanor and Maedhros now face Fingolfin, Ecthelion, and Glorfindel. Ecthelion and Glorfindel challenge Maedhros and the battle is short lived. Glorfindel is wounded and Maedhros is slain. Feanor is enraged and more than willing to take on the last three. Fingolfin strikes Feanor down as he is engaged in the slaughter of Ecthelion and Glorfindel.
So there you have it. Fingolfin wins. If Beleg Cuthlaion had been there the outcome would be different.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
My outcome was based on the group nature of the rumble. In single combat I would predict Feanor as the winner against any of them. Fingolfin would be second to his big brother but could beat any of the the others remaining.
To make it more fun we should add Maglor, Celegorm, Beleg, and Cirdan.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Personally I believe Ecthelion, Beleg Cuthalion, and Maedhros to be about equal though lesser in might than Feanor or Fingolfin.
I dont remember any mention of Cirdan in battle but that doesnt mean he was never in a battle. He was around for the war of wrath and the last alliance and the war of the ring.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Sorry bout that. I ask pardon and I am not losing my mind. Iwas inspired by the mannish version of this q and just pit it in the wrong forum. So Sorry again...
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Who can defeat my prowess in war on the guarded plain of Nargothrond?
Beleg was reknowned for his skill with a bow as well as his skill in the woods, but he was also one of Thingol's great captains.
'I ask then for a sword of worth,' said Beleg; 'for the Orcs come now too thick and close for a bow only, and such blade as I have is no match for their armour.' - Sil
Now Beleg was sorely wounded, but he was mighty among the Elves of Middle-earth, and he was moreover a master of healing. - Sil
The above quotes are how the Silmarillion describes Beleg. Armed with Anglachel he was far from average.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Celethil - you said that you think Feanor could beat any of the others in single combat. I have to disagree with this. I think that Fingolifin would beat them all. Even Feanor.
I thought that in the Silmarillion it said that Feanor had power in craft, while Fingolifin was stronger. I can't remember where I read this. I'll look it up though.
I agree with this as Feanor had the greater skilll of hjnd and word whereas Finolfin was the bravest and best warrior. He fought Morgoth 4 crying out loud..
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Who can defeat my prowess in war on the guarded plain of Nargothrond?
I thought celebrity deathmatch was ****, but this I would pay good money to see and take time out of my for to watch. Therefore it is not like celebrity deathmatch,as if that was a real event, I wouldnt bother as it would probably be rigged.
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Who can defeat my prowess in war on the guarded plain of Nargothrond?
There is nothing in the Silmarillion that states that Fingolfin was braver or stronger than Feanor.
Edit: I need to retract the above statement (Next time I should be sure before I state something like that).
Feanor actually threatens Fingolfin but they don't fight. Yes Fingolfin does wound Morgoth in single combat but he meets no opposition along the way. Feanor was mortally wounded in combat with Gothmog, Balrogs, and orcs. Its my opinion that Feanor would have fared quite the same as Fingolfin if he had met Morgoth in combat.
The Silmarillion does state individually that Feanor is the greatest in skill AND that he is the greatest of the Noldor.
-- Edited by Celethil at 22:31, 2006-10-23
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Yes there is on pg 60 of the Silmarillion where it says "Feanor was the mightiest in word and hand, more learned than his brothers:his spirit burned as a flame.Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the the most Valiant." Now, can u argue with this, really?
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Who can defeat my prowess in war on the guarded plain of Nargothrond?
I wont argue that Feanor was stronger more valiant or steadfast than his younger brother. In that quote it states which of the three brothers is greater in strength, skill, and wisdom. Still Feanor is counted as the greatest of all the Eldar.
Strength and courage do not always win a fight.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
I did not place my argument on skill or wisdom. In the Silmarillion you have each brother being listed with their qualities and yet Feanor is noted as the greatest of the Eldar.
My point was that even though Fingolfin is stronger and Finarfin is wiser, Feanor is still greater overall. That cannot just be because of his skill or it would not be stated. His spirit was more powerful than his brothers or any other of the Eldar.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
"Thus ended the mightiest of the Noldor, of whose deeds came both their greatest renown and their most grievous woe." The Silmarillion
"For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him."
I think that he is considered the mightiest of the noldor because of his power he caused the Noldor their greatest hurt and yet their greatest renown. To start a war with such far reaching consequences is no mean feat and the originator has to be mighty indeed. Also in battle, having a bright, hot spirit is not always the key to victory, rather strength, skill and a cool calculating manner to determine the best moment to strike.I doubt not that Feanor was made greatest of the Noldor by Iluvatar, but how Feanor used his greatness is another question altogether.
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Who can defeat my prowess in war on the guarded plain of Nargothrond?
Tar - I am not sure if you read MoSs post. His quote is a direct contradiction to the one you posted.
I would be willing to concede that Fingolfin was stronger, and Finarfin wiser, but it is clear in the Silmarillion that Feanor was the mightiest of Elves AND Men.
Just in case you missed it...
"For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him." - Sil
Now can you argue with this, really?
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
I suppose this time I'm wrong. I was thinking of where the Silmarillion says that Fingolifin is stronger. But clearly Feanor was greater. My bad this time.
I did read MOS'S post and I do acknowledge that Feanor was made the mightiest of the children of Iluvatar but you seem not to have understood the fundamental point in my argument:
It is what they did with their lives that determines their true might. For example, Feanor, once he got to middle earth, he started to institute a camp. Then the Dagor nuin gilliath happens, he runs into a fight alone with Balrogs and gets killed. He also caused a rift between the Noldor and Teleri/sindar because the of the Kinslaying rather than just ask them to help them build boats sharpish to ferry the hosts across the sea. True he did make the silmarills and also give the noldor a chance for their greatest renown also.
Fingolfin on the other hand did loads of good stuff. First, he forgave his brother for drawing his sword on him.Two, he leads his host across the helcaraxce, demonstrating leadership. Third, he had the good sense not to try to engage Morgoth as soon as he got to middle earth, but went to find the sons of Feanor first and institute a camp. Next his som helps to bring the two sides together bb rescuing Maehdros who would help get the forces for the Nirnaeth sorted out. Finally he helped th enoldor to prosper for hundreds of years and died in single combat with Morgoth himself and caused Morgoth to never accept a challeng eof rsingle combat again.
As we can see, Feanor was made the greatest of the sons of finwe by Iluvatar, But Fingolfin probably accomplished more with what he was given. This is how my argument goes and seriously, can you argue with it???
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Who can defeat my prowess in war on the guarded plain of Nargothrond?
If that is your argument, then yes, it is simple. But first, back to topic which is the battle royal.
Now that we have established that Feanor is without question the mightiest of the Eldar, I return to the point that he could have bested any Elf on that list in single combat.
You argue that Fingolfin 'probably' accomplished more. As an example you site crossing the Helcaraxe, which was done out of shame. Finarfin was the wiser and turned around after the kinslaying. You call it good sense to not attack Morgoth after the exhausting trek, as if there was choice. You list Fingon's act as an accomplishment of his father.
I would however never lessen Fingolfin by downplaying his battle with Morgoth.
Feanor created the Silmarils, Palantiri, improved Rumils work to create Elvish letters, and is fated to return at the end of the world to aid in its re-creation. Fingolfin was a great Elf but did not accomplish more than his Elder brother.
-- Edited by Celethil at 02:01, 2006-10-24
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Just to throw something interesting out there. While Feanor would be the mightiest of the Noldor Elves, therefor the mightiest in this group...you have to remember a common stategy by the other players and that is eliminate your toughest opponent first. So, while in single combat Feanor could beat anyone, could he beat 5-6-7 opponents at the same time?
In this interesting 'Royal Rumble' what if, I wouldn't doubt it if everyone, except maybe Maedhros, would team up against Feanor to get him out first, as he would be their greatest threat.
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I am Lórien, Lord of Dreams, my true name is 'Irmo' in Quenya.
Lord Lorien - I tried to keep it as Elvish as possible. Since Feanor would have a reason to fight with Thingol and Fingolfin, I tried to let the natural loyalties carry it from there. Note, that Fingolfin wins in my scenario. I still think if, Beleg and Celegorm were added it would have ended different.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Feanor would have won. Simply because I think with Beleg added to Thingol's force and Celegorm added to Feanor's force. Fingolfin and Feanor would have attacked in response to Thingol's assault and once that was over the brothers would face off.
Alternatively I could keep the scenario the same as above, but Ecthelion and Glorfindel and Finrod have to deal with Beleg and Mablung, while Celegorm falls to Thingol while Feanor and Fingolfin go at it. At the end this leaves Maedhros and Feanor against Fingolfin and Ecthelion. Feanor at last faces Fingolfin and a severly wounded Ecthelion. Feanor wins.
-- Edited by Celethil at 17:42, 2006-10-24
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Thanx 4 the complement m8. I got inspiration from the one that was doen abotu men which Is why I accidentaly put it in the wrong forum, I was so excited.
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Who can defeat my prowess in war on the guarded plain of Nargothrond?
Yeah but half the stuff in most video games will not happen to you but you still play them.Its just fun to discuss about htis as it would necer happen....
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Who can defeat my prowess in war on the guarded plain of Nargothrond?
