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Topic: Places and ages of Midle-earth.

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Gothmog
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Date: Oct 13, 2006
Places and ages of Midle-earth.
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I heard someone post that we are now in the seventh age of Tolkiens world. If so when did the other ages start and end.


Also, Were in middle-earth is everything? I know the Shire was like England. and Hobiten Londin. That Valinor was north and south America. But what was antartica? And, was Africa supossed to be Harad?


Any help would be helpful.


Gil-Galad.



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Glorfindel
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Date: Oct 13, 2006
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Arda is much smaller than our own world. About one third the size to be exact. It is roughly the size of our moon.


Therefore it is in possible to jam every continent on our planet into Arda unbless it was thrice its size. North Africa would be in ME but then would extend out into the Eastern Sea and possibly into the Dark Land.


Antartical would not be able to fit on there but if it could it would be in the uttermost South Easern corner.


You need to look at the Maps of Arda page


 



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The Might
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Oct 13, 2006
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As far as were everything is please take a look here:



A map made by some students, that simply overlaid Europe in an earlier state with Middle-earth at the end of the third Age.
Of course it is speculation, but it's the best map as far as this matter is concerned.

Although we have no records of the later Fourth, or any following Age, Tolkien makes a brief allusion to the future of Middle-earth in a letter written in 1958: "I imagine the gap [between the Fall of Barad-dûr and modern times] to be about 6000 years; that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S[econd] A[ge] and T[hird] A[ge]. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh."

This note is especially interesting, as it gives some ground for bringing Tolkien's dating system up to date. The fact that we are 'at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh' hints strongly that Tolkien saw some important historical event as marking the recent (or imminent) end of the Sixth Age. Each of the three Ages we know about ended with a great war and the fall of a tyrant, and Tolkien was writing just thirteen years after the end of the Second World War: it could be very plausable that the Fall of the Third Reich meant the beginning of a new age.

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Glorfindel
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The 6th age was supposed to have ended with the second world war I think he says somewhere.


Anyway for this we need an actual map of the whole of Arda TM not simply northern middle-earth and they can be found on the Maps of Arda page



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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!
The Might
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Date: Oct 13, 2006
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those maps are of no use as they show no real resemblance to our modern world
all I am trying to show with the map is that Europe once did look more or less like Middle-earth.
So until you understand my reasons please don't complain about my actions.

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Glorfindel
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He also wants to know where Africa and Antartica would go and I hardly think your map is adequate for there positions...

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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!
The Might
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Oct 13, 2006
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exactly, mine is only good for Europe

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Celethil
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Date: Oct 13, 2006
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So then Atlantis would be in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere between the west coast of Europe and the east coast of North America, no?

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Gothmog
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Date: Oct 13, 2006
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I thought I read somewere that Atlantis was Nemenor. But I might be wrong.

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The Might
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Date: Oct 13, 2006
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theoretically yes...but then again this idea about the whereabouts of Atlantis has existed long before the LOTR.
I would rather say Tolkien took the idea from this myth when creating Numenor - that just like Atlantis grew very strong but eventually had a downfall and disappeared under the waters of the sea
So Numenor was created using Atlantis as a model, not vice-versa.

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Gothmog
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Date: Oct 14, 2006
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Thats what I ment.

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Galin
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Tolkien's dream is quite interesting too. He explains...



'Another ingredient [of these legends], not before mentioned, also came into operation in my need to provide a great function for Strider-Aragorn," he said. "What I might call my Atlantis-haunting. This legend or myth or dim memory of some ancient history has always troubled me. In sleep I had the dreadful dream of the ineluctable Wave, either coming out of the quiet sea, or coming in towering over the green inlands. It still occurs occasionally, though now exorcised by writing about it. It always ends by surrender, and I awake gasping out of deep water. I used to draw it or write bad poems about it. When C.S. Lewis and I tossed up, and he was to write on space-travel and I on time-travel, I began an abortive book of time-travel of which the end was to be the presence of my hero in the drowning of Atlantis. This was to be called Numenor, the Land in the West....' JRRT


In another letter Tolkien says that Faramir speaks for him when he (Faramir) speaks of his vision of the Great Wave; and that the dream was inherited by one of Tolkien's children (Michael).


Galin



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The Might
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Date: Dec 22, 2006
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very interesting indeed Galin...I never knew this...
this just gave me an idea for a new thread

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