My question is what have Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas seen in the night they slept near Fangorn? And here I refer to the old man in a cloak not to the tree near them, so please don't bring that tree in the discussion. "Suddenly Gimli looked up, and there just on the edge of the fire-light stood an old bent man, leaning on a staff, and wrapped in a great cloak; his wide-brimmed hat was pulled down over his eyes. Gimli sprang up, too amazed for the moment to cry out, though at once the thought flashed into his mind that Saruman had caught them. "Both Aragorn and Legolas, roused by his sudden movement, sat up and stared. The old man did not speak or make, sign."
I personally believe it was Saruman, just as Gandalf says: 'Wait a minute!' cried Gimli. 'There is another thing that I should like to know first. Was it you, Gandalf, or Saruman that we saw last night?' 'You certainly did not see me,' answered Gandalf, 'therefore I must guess that you saw Saruman. Evidently we look so much alike that your desire to make an incurable dent in my hat must be excused.' 'Good, good!' said Gimli. 'I am glad that it was not you.' Gandalf laughed again. 'Yes, my good Dwarf,' he said, 'it is a comfort not to be mistaken at all points. Do I not know it only too well! But, of course, I never blamed you for your welcome of me. How could I do so, who have so often counselled my friends to suspect even their own hands when dealing with the Enemy. Bless you, Gimli, son of Glóin! Maybe you will see us both together one day and judge between us!' (TTT, The White Rider)
"'Now I understand a part of last night's riddle,' said Legolas as he sprang lightly upon Arod's back. 'Whether they fled at first in fear, or not, our horses met Shadowfax, their chieftain, and greeted him with joy. Did you know that he was at hand, Gandalf?' 'Yes, I knew,' said the wizard. 'I bent my thought upon him, bidding him to make haste; for yesterday he was far away in the south of this land. Swiftly may he bear me back again!'"
I might however be wrong, but does anyone have other ideas which they can bakc up with proof here?
Well Gandalf says to the Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas that he thinks it must have been Saruman as it certainly wasn't him. But if it is not Saruman it appears it does not really matter as he clearly had little part in the story outline except a bit of Mystery outside Fangorn.
umm... I think I already knew it was a mystery but if I don't ask how should I find out if there was nothing behind the mystery? I was hoping that perhaps someone could clear the mystery, so if you don't have an answer you can't help me. And this mystery is not one of the small ones, if that was not Saruman who could that have been? Old men don't simply walk near Fangorn.
Id say it might have been Radagast, who actually did love nature, or it even might have been Tom Bombadil, who we know to be a misterious figure aswell, and by some tails he is told maybe even to be one of the Maiar/Valar. So yet as it remains a mistery, id say it was one of them, for i dont believe Saruman would have left his tower.
Intersting ideas there, anyway good ideas. But it couldn't have been Radagast as we are clearly told he had little part in the War of the Ring, all he did was help the others by sending birds or animals to spy on the forces of Sauron or of Isengard, and of course he was the one who sent Gwaihir to free Gandalf from Orthanc. But we can be sure it was not him on the borders of Fangorn, as he did not wear a white robe. Tom Bombadil is indeed a very good idea, but we are clearly told in some quotes, that "But he cannot alter the Ring itself, nor break its power over others. And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them." (lotr, he council of Elrond) as you see, Tom Bombadil would have never gone there, for the simple reason that he wasn't interested at all in what happened there. But, indeed, it could have been another Maia (not a Vala, as they had decided to stay out of the problems of Middle-earth since the end of the War of Wrath). There is however a quote that makes me think it was Saruman: "They were brought to Fangorn, and their coming was like the falling of small stones that starts an avalanche in the mountains. Even as we talk here, I hear the first rumblings. Saruman had best not be caught away from home when the dam bursts!" (lotr, the white rider) Also when the Ents reached Isengard, Saruman was outside which might suggest he had been gone somewhere. This is the only proof for Saruman that I can think of. But, as you said, it could have been another Maia. Maybe it was just left out, as a mystery.
hehe, lol funny idea. and frankly among all the possibilities, this is the best one except Saruman of course they wore blue robes, but who knows. there are quotes saying they might have been corrupted by Sauron. But unfortunately all quotes also say they never returned. So it couldn't have been them. Still, good idea mouthofsauron.
But unfortunately all quotes also say they never returned. So it couldn't have been them.
Partly correct. I belive most quotes say that they never returned to the west but nothing is known of what became of them, therefore one may assume that they could have returned without knowing.
Although hugely unlikely, it could be a possibility.
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Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!
no it makes no sense. we know they didn't come to the west + we don't know what happened to them = we know they remained in the east but don't know what exactly they did there
can you think logically for a second? what you said is nonsense. he says they didn't come to the west. so they were in the east. he says we don't know what happened to them the final idea is we don't know what happened to them in the east.
ok, enough. actually, that isn't even the case. here is the quote: "but unlike him never returned into the Westlands" "the Blue Wizards were destined to journey in those regions and to remain there." "for they passed into the East with Curunír, but they never returned, and whether they remained in the East, pursuing there the purposes for which they were sent; or perished; or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants, is not now known" as I always say, quotes are all. your whole theory is nothing. the term not known doesn't refer to where they remained, but to what exactly they did, if they stayed true to the cause or if they joined Sauron.
you were still wrong about it. and yes, unfortunately we seem to disagree on a lot of things. but I enjoy discussing with you...better then simply say, yes I agree.
no, actually I think you win for the night... I have to wake up at 7 tomorrow and I am one timeline later then you...so you have approx 10:20 there...I have 11:20 doesn't matter...anyway, I know I should normally PM you about this, but I'll do it here... sorry about my overreaction earlier...I know it was only a normal remark from you.
Okay.. Here is my opinion on what they saw outside the forest at fangorn. I believe that they saw saruman. Since Gandolf told gimili it was not him. I also believe that Saruman would have left his tower.. He was after the ring.. and believed that either merry, or pipin.. were in possession of it. he probley left his tower to claim the ring from the orcs as soon as possible.not counting on loosing the hobbits when the rohirrim attacted the group of orcs.
For my part I agree with the Saruman idea, or perhaps what they saw was akin to an elvish dream, experiencing a phantom of the past in the waking world, a ghost perhaps of some long distant old man, lost on the borders of Fangorn and doomed to walk it's bounds forever, warning it's visitors of his fate...
that is a really good idea Annwen... never thought of that Saruman clearly couldn't wait to receive the Ring so he quickly went to get it...unfortunately the Orcs had been destroyed and he only saw Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli that would make sense considering the fact that the battle where the Orcs were destroyed took place not far away from the camp of the 3 hunters...makes sense to me
If you read the Intrioduction of the book by Tolkein, he state that there are still some minor mistakes within the text, but he had niether the time nor the inclination to correct them. This is probably one of them, as is the debate of who was first, Bombadil, or Treebeard.
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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
well, this is a very much corrected edition, and not the first edition and I doubt that in this case Tolkien made a mistake or forgot something I think he wrote that on purpose to give the story a touch of mystery and also to maybe make us ask ourselves who that was
? But remember, although i still support the possibility - it was Glorfindels idear.
