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Topic: Elves of the East

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Apr 20, 2006
Elves of the East

When the first Elves arose on the eastern shores of the sea of helcar, some were captured by Melkor and some later on followed the Hunter, orome, over to Valinor and some stopped on the way, unable to go any further and they established Beleriand. But the ones who were neither captured, nor followed Orome, what happend to them?


It just says in the Silmarillion that none knew what became of them.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 20, 2006
Indeed, these were the Avari and they are part of the Mriquendi, the Elves of Darkness.
Their fate however is little known:
"Wolves there were, or creatures that walked in wolf-shapes, and other fell beings of shadow; and among them were the Orcs, who afterwards wrought ruin in Beleriand: but they were yet few and wary, and did but smell out the ways of the land, awaiting the return of their lord. Whence they came, or what they were, the Elves knew not then, thinking them perhaps to be Avari who had become evil and savage in the wild; in which they guessed all too near, it is said."
This quote for example that the Avari were perhaps those that were made into orcs.
"But many refused the summons, preferring the starlight and the wide spaces of Middle-earth to the rumour of the Trees; and these are the Avari, the Unwilling, and they were sundered in that time from the Eldar, and met never again until many ages were past."
The fact that they met again doesn't have very much as we don't know if this "reunion" was made with the Avari as Elves or as Orcs.
"For they remembered the Avari that remained by the waters of their awakening, and they did not utterly forsake the Noldor in exile; and ManwŰ knew also that the hour of the coming of Men was drawn nigh. And it is said indeed that, even as the Valar made war upon Melkor for the sake of the Quendi, so now for that time they forbore for the sake of the Hildor, the Aftercomers, the younger Children of Il˙vatar. "
However this quote shows that the Valar hadn't utterly forgotten the Avari and also considering the fact the word Quendi appears in the next sentence, it would lead to the idea that the Avari, or at least some of them still were Quendi.

"Many Elves dwelt there indeed, as they had dwelt through the countless years, wandering free in the wide lands far from the Sea; but they were Avari, to whom the deeds of Beleriand were but a rumour and Valinor only a distant name. And in the south and in the further east Men multiplied; and most of them turned to evil, for Sauron was at work."
This quote in the end, shows us that the Avari still were Elves.

As we can see here it is clear some of the Avari were probably turned into Orcs and joined Melkor, but others remaind free throughout the ages and lived far away. perhaps isolated from the other Elves. However Tolkien never gives a complex story and description of where exactly they lived or what they did. It seems to me they were simply forgotten, just as these Elves had forgotten their long lost brothers in the West.
One could speculate that some of the Avari did return West and perhaps became Wood-elves or grey-elves, but there is of course no real proof.

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Men of Numenor - Rank 1
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Date: Apr 24, 2006
The Might- please correct me if I am wrong- You are saying that there is a chance the elves that dwelled in Mirkwood and Lorien are of Moriquendi decent?

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Orc captain of Thangorodrim - Rank 3
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Date: Apr 24, 2006

Itarilde, the Elves of Lorien and Mirkwood were most certainly descended from the Moriquendi, since the only Elves in ME that were of the Caliquendi were the Noldor and Thingol.  The Elves of both Lorien and Mirkwood were predominantly Silvan, although they were ruled by Sindarin Elves (and one Noldorin Elf, namely Galadriel).



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 24, 2006
I don't need to say it-Tolkien made it as clear as possible.
Look at the "Sundering of the Elves" diagram, it makes it 100% clear.
And they were not descendants of the Moriquendi, it's ot like the Moriquendi are a people, the term Moriquendi simply defines "Elves of Darkness (They never saw the light of the Trees)".

As you can see in thee image above, the Grey and Green Elves were Moriquendi.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Apr 24, 2006
I believe it is the Avari that were the ones unaccounted for in the East not the Wood Elves.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 24, 2006
wrong.
firstly, nobody in this thread ever said that the Green Elves were some of those in the East
secondly, you are wrong when saying that the Avari were the only ones in the East.
Indeed most of these Quendi were from the Avari, but to them is added the part of the Nandor, that does not include the Laiquendi. These are so called, distant relatives of the Green Elves, and are actually the Teleri that left Beleriand and went East of the Misty Mountains, and that never returned to Beleriand.
And of course, a part of these Laiquendi were those that founded the kingdom in northern Mirkwood.

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