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Topic: Sauron a good smith???

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Apr 2, 2006
Sauron a good smith???

"It has been said that dragon-fire icould melt and consume the Rings of Power; but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough; nor was there any dragon, not even Ancalogon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring for that was made by Sauron himself."(Lord of the rings, the Fellowship of the Ring)


It seems to suggest here that firstly Sauron was a better smith that the Noldor of the second age. The smiths of Ost-in-edhil which were Noldorian made the rings of power and they could be melted by dragon fire of the first age. But Gandalf says that no dragon fire, not even Ancalagon the Blacks fire could have harmed the One ring. Why is this?



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Orc captain of Thangorodrim - Rank 3
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Date: Apr 2, 2006

Well, the simple reason is that he was a better smith.  He was a Maia of Aule, not to mention that he would of course be a better smith since he taught the Noldor of Eregion ring-lore.


Add in the fact that he was forging the One Ring in the fires of an active volcano as opposed to an Elven forge, and it's quite obvious that his ring will be superior in strenth.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 13, 2006
Well, I dunno about that, I mean I agree that Sauron was a better smith, but I think the quote shows not so much the power of Sauron, but the invincibility of the One Ring, ok almost invincible...because as we know some of the Dwarven Rings were consumed by dragons. but if we think Sauron made the One Ring and the elves made the ones for the dwarves we can say that Sauron is shown as a better smith..

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Apr 13, 2006

You last post is quite confusing, The might. Are you with the idear of Sauron being a better smith or against it?



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Chief Maiar
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Date: Apr 13, 2006

I'd just like to add one point to what The Might said about the quote showing the invincibility of the One Ring, I would say this invincibility is due to the fact that Sauron put much of his own power (quite likely his 'soul') into the one ring, as we can see by the fact that he cannot be vanquished unless the One Ring (and the foundations of Barad-Dur) are destroyed.



-- Edited by The One at 16:38, 2006-04-13

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Begging your pardon Olorin, Maiar, but what do you mean by "and the foundation of Barad-dur"? Sauron could not survive if the One Ring were destroyed whether the Dark tower held strong or not.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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the idea is that the destruction of the One Ring would bring with it the destruction of the foundations of Barad-Dur, so the way to look as it is the destruction of the One Ring and implicitly of the foundations. And as for glorfindel, I believe it is not hard to see what my opinion was...

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Apr 14, 2006

Yes but it did not take Barad-durs downfall to destroy Sauron - It took sauron destruction (or the rings) to bring the downfall of Barad-dur.


Firstly you say 'well I dunno bout that' meaning you are unsure about Sauron being a better smith, then you say 'well I know he is a better smith but' etc.
It is a little confusing.


However for notice Glorfindel, The might agrees about Sauron being a better smith.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 14, 2006
I said, as you will notice upon a closer look, that that quote isn't the best to show Sauron's qualities as smith, there are better ones, and you confuse me about Barad-dur.
Now it is an implicite realtion between Sauron and Barad-dur.
Sauron was dependent on the Ring, as he had poured some of his power into it, and needed it to continue his survival.
Barad-dur was dependent on the Ring because its foundations were created with its help.
But this is just implicite. When the Ring was destroyed, Sauron was destroyed, and implicilty the foundations of Barad-dur

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Chief Maiar
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Date: Apr 14, 2006
With regards to Barad-Dur, as The Might rightly says it was built using the power of the One Ring and some of that power went into the foundations, the One Ring had power only because Sauron had embued it with his own personal power, therefore some of his personal power went into the making and therefore the foundations themselves, this means that the foundations were apart of Sauron just as the Ring was but in a lesser manner. Not that it matter since the foundations couldn't be destroyed unless the One was destroyed and once the One was destroyed so was Sauron. Still its worth noting.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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indeed the foundations were a part of Sauron, but only indirectly...considering the fact the Ring was a part of Sauron and the foundations were made with the help of the Ring.
So indeed some of his evil power was there, but again only indirectly. Another thing done with the power of the Ring was the Black Gate. It had been an old Gondorian fortification done to keep things from coming out of Mordor but it fell into decay and it was repaired by Sauron with the help of the Ring and used to keep things from coming into Mordor.

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Orc captain of Thangorodrim - Rank 3
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A small correction, Might.  The Black Gate itself was built by Sauron, "Across the mouth of the pass, from cliff to cliff, the Dark Lord had built a rampart of stone.  In it tehre was a single gate of iron, and upon its battlement sentinels paced unceasingly." (RotK, The Black Gate is Closed), although the Towers of the Teeth were indeed built by the Men of Gondor, "In days long past they were built by the Men of Gondor in their pride and power" (ibid).

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 14, 2006
ah yes indeed, sorry I didn't made myself very clear.

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