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Topic: Greatest Man

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: May 30, 2006
RE: Greatest Man

well yes he has.
now, I just remembered this and I guess you might now this
just wanted to add that he and his wife had as inscriptions on their graves the words Luthien and Beren

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Suffice to say i know little about Tolkien himself but a fair amount on his works.


I would have thought 'Manwe and Varda' would be better?



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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can be...anyway they have Beren and Luthien
I personally would have said Sam and Rosie...but dunno...it was his choice...anyway I think we are quite off topic

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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I think we have settled the former topic however.


So how did his wife die?



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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diabetis I think.
and I think Tolkien's mother also died on diabetis but I am not sure

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Well anyway. I am sure Tolkien would be amazed by the fuss made over his works. He's probably up there dying to correct mistakes he hear's people make - "No Morgoth is the evilest, Morgoth, Morgoth! Struth, didn't I get that through!?"

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I don't know. I think he wanted people to imagine a continuation for the story, like the fourth age and further. I think the movies would disturb him more, just as the first movies disturbed him.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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I think his amazement of the fuss of his works would surpass any frustrations he had with inaccuracies.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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amazement?
his books were quite succesfull even at that time and he knew that people liked his stories.
of course that the success and the notoriety the movies gave to the books was very great, but I think he would be more proud then amazed.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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To see kids playing dozens of Video games on Characters he created 60 years before in a book, on a Television? I think amazement is more apt than proud.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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oh ok that is true

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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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I'd say-Earendil and Beren

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Yeah I suppose Beren is pretty couragous to, stealing a Silmaril from the iron Crown of Morgoth. But then if Hurin were to be given that chance I suppose he probably would have done so to as he did insult Morgoth while in front of him and surrounded by his demons!

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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for that matter I think that almost all the great heroes of Men would have done the same if they were in the same situation as Beren.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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I doubt. Aragorn was scarcely building up courage to look in the Palantir, let alone go to Barad-dur himself alone. You think he would venture to the black depths of Angband, or the cold peaks of Thangordrim to the throne of Morgoth?

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I said "almost" in case you didn't notice.
and anyway looking into the palantir was also something that required courage

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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I would only say that the men who lived in the First age would attemp such a fiet. Elendil, Isildur, Aragorn, Pharazon were all very courages but for there time. Hurin, Beren, Turin, Earendil I would say had about the same courage as the mentioned but for there time and the First age required more courage I believe as Morgoth was an undefeatable enemy, Sauron was not.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I am not that sure...the Numeroneans did not need so much courage as they compensated by strentgh of arms.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Well yes the Early Numenoreans of Numenor (not the later of Middle-earth) were very nearly parring I suppose. But the only reason they are so Couragous is becuase they are the Edain who fought against Morgoth so they are actually first age men. But even there leaders (Elendil,Pharazon,Amadil) all except Elros, I doubt would go alone to the great Darkness.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I must remind you...Beren was not alone
actually Luthien did most of the work to save him from Sauron and then to put all of Angband to sleep.
Beren only had to go through many sleepy creatures and cut the Silmaril
of course this still needs great courage, but I don't think that means others wouldn#t have done that

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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But Beren i think would have done it alone without Luthien. Anyway this is a opinion, I just don't think the men of the second and third age had the amount of courage as the First age men as they were not facing an undefeatable enemy and were in a less evil time.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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alone?
impossible
how could he have gone into Angband? he had no elven magic? no powers to cast sleep on others?
do you mean fight his way all the way to Melkor? I doubt that.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Whether or not he succeeded is irrelevant. Just the attemp is all that needed the courage. He could have only got outside Menegroth with his thought on reaching Angband and perished, but providing he wholly meant to go through with it then the courage value is no less than had he succeeded.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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no, I doubt he would have sacrificed himself like that
he tried alone and he only managed to end up captive in Sauron's prison
but that doesn't mean others were not in similar situations

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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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you mean Beren?

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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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sorry,I wanted to quote Nessila who said that Luthien's husband was Beorn

-- Edited by Aredhel at 13:39, 2006-06-03

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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hehe, yes
I can picture myself Luthien together with Beorn as a bear

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Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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I says in the Silmarillion that Hurin was the mightiest of the woriors of mortal Men. But, this is the greatest of men. It depends on the definition of "greatest".

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Men are weak. Even so, Beren is to be respected above all of them.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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Celethil, where did you get that men are weak.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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It's the Noldorin pride. It blinds him from seeing the obvious truth - Men are much kooler then Elves

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Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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I don't know whats funnier. Celethil's noldorin pride. Or you spelling cooler with a K.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I actually wanted to spell "kewl" first but then I thought some people might not get it so I just made it "kool".
Really kewl, isn't it?

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Actually I was quoting Elrond from the film. His monlogue scene with Gandalf just before the Council of Elrond.

Then there is the Noldorin pride as well. I should have referred to men as Engwar. A proper Elvish term for them.


Ok so Beren is kewl.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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Okay Celethil I remember now.


TM, I would have goten it if you had said "kewl". I thought you just made a tipo.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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ok...so in the end the conclusion is
ENGWAR ARE KEWL.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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The Might - I did not think you liked all that rubbish American talk?

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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I don't think there is a reason to use such words when reffering to another language.
As far as I am concerned I will use which words I see fitting, as long as they don't offend anyone.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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America does not have a language TM. Its called English (thats England). They simply accepted it and contorted a few words for there own customisation.


From what I know you despise the phrase 'Chill out'.



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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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LoL America has a language. Its a dialect of English, just like Mexico uses a dialect of Spanish (Spain).

The English can continue to pine over their lost colony if they like, but we're not coming back until the world grows up and forms a global government.



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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
 
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