Tolkien Top 100 Middle Earth's Top 100
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
 

Topic: Elu Thingol

Post Info
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2372
Date: Mar 15, 2006
Elu Thingol

There seems to be conflicting text about whether Thingol was an Elf or some kind of Maiar decended into arda later from the rest. What is he? firstborn or one of these strange spirits?


How would a first king of beleriand be decided?



__________________
My Master Sauron the Great bids thee Welcome....
Valar
Status: Offline
Posts: 120
Date: Mar 16, 2006
Elu Thingol is an elf, nothing else. The thing what makes him so "mysterious" is that he married a maiar Melian.She was a maiar who served Estë and Vaná (valar) but she became a Queen of Doriath. Thingol was first know as Elwë Singollo but when he met Melian and married her, he took the name Elu Thingol.

__________________
I am Tulkas the Valiant who laughs ever in the face of Good or Evil.
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Mar 16, 2006

Wel, that clears the first part up. As for how you would choose the first King of a realm like Beleriand I am guesssing they would be appointed by One of the Original Eldar, Ingwe, Finwe, Elwe or perhaps an Ainur?



__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Valar
Status: Offline
Posts: 120
Date: Mar 16, 2006
I dont quite follow you there what you mean by choosing a King...? I quess when it come to Thingol, that was obvious thing..he being a one of the first of firstborn and then marrying a maiar Melian.

__________________
I am Tulkas the Valiant who laughs ever in the face of Good or Evil.
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Mar 16, 2006
Well you become a king if your a decendant of a line of Kings or royalty etc. yet How would you choose a first king? Elros was given choice by Eru to become the first king of Numenor for example.

__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Peoples of Rohan - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Date: Mar 16, 2006
Well I definetely agree that Thingol was an elf, I don't remember reading anything anywhere to suggest anything else.  Concerning the choosing of a first king, I would guess that either the Valar would have appointed whoever they thought was right for the job, or that maybe a simular thing would have happened as to what happened in real life where someone who is well respected managed to gain power over others and eventually took the title for themself.  I would suspect that they were appointed by the Valar however.

__________________
Valar
Status: Offline
Posts: 120
Date: Mar 17, 2006
Elros (and Elrond) were given the choice to choose between mortal and immortal life, dont think that he has the chance to choose if he will become King in that minute. But yes, he made a choice and that eventually make him the first King of Dúnedain and Númenor.

__________________
I am Tulkas the Valiant who laughs ever in the face of Good or Evil.
Chief Maiar
Status: Offline
Posts: 375
Date: Mar 18, 2006
Who was the first King of all Beleriand? As for Elu Thingol who was king of Doriath that (as I believe has been said before) was due to him being originally one of the leaders of the elves who travelled from where they awoke to Valinor (though Thingol and his followers didn't go into the west they remained, where as Olwe his brother did.) Like the questionage session though.

__________________

...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.

Orc captain of Thangorodrim - Rank 3
Status: Offline
Posts: 113
Date: Mar 25, 2006

Thingol was the King of Beleriand, not just Doriath, or at least he was in title. The sons of Fëanor listened to him and obeyed him, as did the other Noldor as well as the Edain.


As for why he was considered the King of Beleriand, I would think it because



a) He was wed to Melian, a Maia, and she had a vast ammount of power.
b) When crowned, he was the only Elf in Middle-earth to have seen the Two Trees of Valinor (he's not counted amongst the Moriquendi for this reason as well) and had the light of Valinor in him.
c) He was, from the beginning, someone of status and power; he was one of the two leaders of the Teleri when they marched from Cuiviénen to Valinor until he was lost.



-- Edited by Narguzir at 05:04, 2006-03-25

__________________
Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
Status: Offline
Posts: 32
Date: Apr 25, 2006

Elu Thingol was first known as Elwe, then Elwe Singollo, then Elu Thingol, and king of the Teleri - the last of the three races of Elves who journeyed to Aman (Ingwe was king of the Vanyar; Finwe king of the Holdor). With his brothers, Elwe journeyed to Valinor before the First Age and later returned to Middle Earth, though unlike his brothers he never went back to Valinor.


With Melian, he founded the wooded Kingdom of Doriath, which he ruled to his end at the hands of some dwarves. From what I can gather, Beleriand had no king.



__________________
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 306
Date: Oct 1, 2006
He was indeed an Elf.

__________________
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Oct 1, 2006
Elu Thingol was indeed an Elf. An ancient Elf from the East of the sea of Helcar. His original name was Elwe and he was friend of Finwe. He chose to abandon the Western rode and seek Melian the Maiar and they established the realm of Doriath and Belerinad. Simple as. His origin is clear.

__________________

Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
Status: Offline
Posts: 42
Date: Jan 3, 2007

Thingol is Elwe, one of the 3 to be brought back to Valinor to help talk the rest of the elves to come.  Orome was the first to meet the elves, and he was the one that chose Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe as the representitives of the 3 tribes i guess would be the word there.  After they got back and talked to their people were they crowned.  On the road to the west they followed Orome, the Vanyar out front, Noldor behind them, and last the Teleri.  Elwe and his brother led the Teleri, but one day wandering through the forests he found Melian the Maia, and was put into a trance of some kind for years.  Elwe was on his way to visit his dear friend Finwe, king of the Noldor.  Elwe's brother Olwe led the Teleri that still wished to go while a large group stayed behind to find their king. 


So, Elwe is definalty and elf.  He is definatly the King of Doriath.  As far as King of Beleriand, i think that is more of a Honorary title rather than a absolute kind of title. 



__________________
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Date: Aug 29, 2011

Thingol was Elwe.  Definately an Elf, I'm not so sure 'King of Beleriand' is accurate because not all Sindar recognized him as their king.  Was he considered as High Elven because he went to Valinor but didn't live there?



__________________
Tom Bombadil
Status: Offline
Posts: 1886
Date: Aug 29, 2011
Elwë was one of the greatest of the Elven Lords. He was a Teleri and one of those who woke at Cuivienen. He was called King of Doriath and Overlord of the Sindar. I don't think he ever called himself a "King" of the Sindarin Elves.

__________________

Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

 
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Chatbox

Please log in to join the chat!

Previous poll results (What is the 'Mightiest' weapon in Tolkiens myth?): Gurthang, blade of Turin - 28%, Narsil, sword of Elendil - 12%, Anduril, Sword of King Ellesar Aragorn - 23%, The Mace of the Witch King - 5%, Grond the dread hammer/hammer of the underworld -19%, Black axe of Gothmog - 4, Glamdring of Gandalf - 7%, Orcrist of Thorin - 1% A NEW POLL HAS BEEN ADDED TO TOLKIEN FORUMS Tolkien Forums - The Mythical world of J.R.R Tolkien