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Topic: Imladris calendar

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 103
Date: Nov 14, 2013
Imladris calendar

WHAT DAY IS IT IN ELVISH RECKONING?

Now that it known when the First Age of the Sun began it becomes possible to create an Elvish calendar for our times. All we need to do is follow the explaination of how Imladris Reckoning worked in Appendix D in Return of the King. Since the Elves aged very slowly they had a unit of time called a Yen equal to 144 of our years. The Eldar there had a year, or Loa, divided into 6 short seasons of 9 or 12 weeks, or Enquie, of six days, or Re, each. This was preceded by a first day called Yestare and ended by one named Mettare. Between the third and fourth seasons were 3 days called Endari. This totalled 365 days.

In order to keep in alignment with the seasons they had a leap year every 12 years that added 3 Endari. Once every 432 years this was omitted. This would give a year of about 365.243 days; longer than the 365.242 days that King's Reckoning averages. This shows that the calendar was quite ancient and the Elves knew their seasons. The tropical year becomes longer the further one goes into the past.

It can also be seen that once created they never changed it. In the Appendix it is noted that the start of their year began on April 6 in Shire Reckoning even though the spring equinox occured around April 1. But this wouldn't be too far off the mark if the calendar was backdated to the start of the First Age of the Sun.

If the assumption that the Elvish calendar began with the start of the First Age of the Sun then one condition must be met; no end of a third yen could have occured during Bilbo's time. From the Appendix;

"That there was an inaccuracy is shown by a note in the calendars of the Red Book to the effect that in the 'Reckoning of Rivendell' the last year of every third yen was shortened by three days: the doubling of the three enderi due in that year was omitted; 'But that has not happened in our time'.'

The last year of the 48th yen was 2881 of the Third Age; 9 years before Bilbo was born. The next would not occur for another 432 years.

So now you can construct your own Elvish calendar. Just use the dates given below. There was a leap year in 2011-12 and there will be one every twelth year afterwards with no exception until 2335-36.

Years of the Valian Saturday, February 16, 731058 BC.

Years of the Lamps Thursday, July 18, 457458 BC.

Years of the Trees Saturday, November 23, 227058 BC.

Years of the Elves Saturday, February 15, 75857 BC.

Years of the Dwarves Friday, February 21, 65057 BC.

Years of the Men Sunday, March 22, 11057 BC.

Year of the Sun.

1 Yestare Sunday, March 22, 11057 BC.

12961 Yestare Wednesday, March 30, 1904 AD.

13071 Yestare Sunday, March 30, 2014.

13071 Tuile 1 Monday, March 31, 2014.

13071 Laire 1 Saturday, May 24, 2014.

13071 Yavie 1 Monday, August 4, 2014.

13071 Endari 1 Saturday, September 27, 2014.

13071 Quelle 1 Tuesday, September 30, 2014.

13071 Hrive 1 Sunday, November 23, 2014.

13071 Coire 1 Tuesday, February 3, 2015.

13071 Mettare Sunday, March 29, 2015.

13072 Yestare Monday, March 30, 2015.

13073 Yestare Tuesday, March 29, 2016.

13074 Yestare Wednesday, March 29, 2017.

13075 Yestare Thursday, March 29, 2018.

13076 Yestare Friday, March 29, 2019.

13077 Yestare Saturday, March 28, 2020.

13089 Yestare Sunday, March 28, 2032 (Easter).

13100 Yestare Sunday, March 29, 2043 (Easter).

13111 Yestare Sunday, March 29, 2054 (Easter).

13122 Yestare Sunday, March 29, 2065 (Easter).



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Tom Bombadil
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Posts: 1886
Date: Nov 16, 2013
Very Interesting and a lot of work. But I AM not much of a Mathematician


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Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 103
Date: Nov 22, 2013
Let us remember C.S. Lewis; who died 50 years ago today.

Don't worry; I'll do the math for you.

Here's some of the names for the various ice ages that correspond to times in the First Age.

Time Age in British, Swiss, European, and American

Years of the Valian Beestonian, Gunz, Menapian, Nebraskan
Years of the Lamps Anglian, Mindel, Elster, Kansan
Years of the Trees Wolstonian, Riss, Saale, Illinoian
Years of the Children Devensian, Wurm, Weichsel, Wisconsinian

Also, here's what happened during the first years of the Yen.

1st yen: Year 1 of the First Age, 11057 BC.
5th yen: Year 577 of the First Age, 10481 BC.
29th yen: Year 2 of the Third Age, 7025 BC.
50th yen: Year 6 of the Fourth Age, 4001 BC.
56th yen: Year 870 of the Fourth Age, 3137 BC.
60th yen: Year 1446 of the Fourth Age, 2561 BC. The Great Pyramid is built.
64th yen: Year 16 of the Fifth Age, 1985 BC.
67th yen: Year 448 of the Fifth Age, 1553 BC.
70th yen: Year 880 of the Fifth Age, 1121 BC.
78th yen: Year 38 of the Sixth Age, 32 AD. Conversion of Saint Paul.
83rd yen: Year 758 of the Sixth Age, 752 AD. Founding of the Carolingian Dynasty by Pepin III.
85th yen: Year 1046 of the Sixth Age, 1040 AD. Alfonso VI of Leon and Castile is born. Macbeth kills Duncan I and becomes king.
86th yen: Year 1190 of the Sixth Age, 1184 AD. Igor Svyatoslavich's campaign. Cantebury Cathedral completed.
87th yen: Year 1334 of the Sixth Age, 1328 AD. Philippe VI of France founds the Valois line. Robert Bruce invades England.
88th yen: Year 1478 of the Sixth Age, 1472 AD. Ivan III of Russia weds Zoe, niece of the last Byzantine emperor.
89th yen: Year 1622 of the Sixth Age, 1616 AD. Bishop Richelieu of France becomes Secretary of State.
90th yen: Year 1766 of the Sixth Age, 1760 AD. George III of Britain becomes king.
91st yen: Year 1910 of the Sixth Age, 1904 AD.
92nd yen: Year 104 of the Seventh Age, 2048 AD.



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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 383
Date: Feb 25, 2014
This may be not exactly on the topic, but as a person very familiar with calendars and chronologies maybe you could help resolve the question on timing of Gandalf's journey from Mirkwood (after questioning Gollum) to Hobbiton, to give the Ring the final test? There is more detail on this in the Lost History and Speculative Fun thread. It would be great to hear from the expert in the matter.

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Lórellinë

Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 103
Date: Mar 1, 2014
I wouldn't say that I'm an expert on the matter. I just might have the ability to see some things that others don't that might give me an edge. These are usually mathematical or scientific in nature.

You might want to get advice from a Wizard of the East. I heard that they're still looking for the Five Rings of the Gnomes.



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Guard of Armenelos - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 753
Date: Mar 2, 2014
Mr. the Just,

Please don't hold out on us. Chronology, timing, along with places and events...is right up your alley. In this I would consider Math and Science imperative. How can this request be so easily set aside by a mind like yours? Before you is a task of unlocking great secrets with a talent you possess (it's like being given the combination to every safe in the world). C'mahn. So....let's get crackin shall we? (insert interrogation scene here) Where was Gandalf on the night of May 12th 3017...? (just an arbitrary date, pay no mind although I am keenly interested)

Joking...but I have it on a good source that you might be very helpful in this quest to place the pieces upon the chessboard of the sweetest game of chess in literature. What say you?

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 383
Date: Mar 2, 2014
You guys are advanced. This 'science' thing and the other starting with 'm' are something like magic I guess, only scarier? Never heard of such stuff. But what a pity it doesn't confer enough clairvoyance to lay out who was where at what time. As to that edge, I had an impression you simply appropriated a Palantir somewhere. And those five rings in the east... Did you mean those of which one wasn't even working properly?

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Lórellinë

Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 103
Date: Mar 3, 2014
All right, I'll try. I may have the skills but my knowledge base is a little weak. I haven't even read all the HoMe books yet.

I do not have a Palantir. But some things come to me in dreams.

The One Ring.

O

The One Ring plus the Rings of the Elves and Gnomes.

GEG
EOE
GGG

The rings I'm referring to are named Gondya, Ringya (really), Hithya, Urya, and Lithya. If you know your Elvish and the alchemical elements you'll be able to see the pattern.

The Years of the Gnomes began on Tuesday, February 18, 68657 BC.

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 383
Date: Mar 4, 2014
I wish I knew 'my' (not my at all) English well enough, let alone Elvish.

And of course I wonder how this pattern,

Heat, air, mist
Fire, master, water
Ash, stone, cold,

or something, helps mapping the evasive Gandalf's movements...

Do Gnomes, unless they are Noldor of course, even exist? Except the topic starter that is (long lived too); supposedly there are still enough fingers for these rings.

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Lórellinë

Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 383
Date: Mar 7, 2014
I am starting to suspect that the topic starter, equipped with his recently demonstrated GPS program and chronologies and calendars, has put together a time machine to observe the events directly! Hopefully he will take a video of them with the dates set correctly, and will share it before selling it to some film makers...


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Lórellinë

Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 103
Date: Mar 7, 2014
In fact, I have! Need proof? Here it is.

Remember when I posted a link to this picture, saying this is where Edoras was by my calculations?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chamonix_valley_from_la_Fl%C3%A9g%C3%A8re,2010_07.JPG

Well, Gandalf flew on an eagle to there after escaping from Isengard. Here's the video.

www.youtube.com/watch

Note the date the video was made and compare it to when I made my post. Time machines can be quite convenient.


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Guard of Armenelos - Rank 4
Status: Offline
Posts: 753
Date: Mar 8, 2014
James the Just, FYI
That Wiki-address comes up blank or an error.....

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 103
Date: Mar 8, 2014
Well, just google Chamonix Wiki. The video of the eagle flying was actually made there, and only days after I posted that Edoras was in Chamonix.

Oooooooohhhh.

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 383
Date: Mar 9, 2014

(The working link is in the first post of 'A guided tour to M-e' thread.)


The video was posted September 16th and you posted your mapping of Edoras on September 19th, 2013 to be exact (maybe you actually mapped it earlier), but I thought you were referring to the date of Gandalf's escape, which is September 18 (3018 Third Age though).

However that may be, I am convinced that the time machine works, so if you go to the past just a bit more, you should be able to tell us exactly when Gollum was taken by Aragorn (to be questioned by Gandalf), when Gandalf left Mirkwood after interviewing Gollum, and how long it took him to get from there to Hobbiton, where he arrived on April 12, 3018...



-- Edited by Lorelline on Sunday 9th of March 2014 12:02:26 PM

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Lórellinë

 
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