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Topic: Grond carriers!

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Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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Date: Oct 9, 2006
Grond carriers!

Does anyone know what carried Grond all the way from Mordor to Minis-Tirith!



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Oct 9, 2006
"Great beasts drew it, Orcs surrounded it, and behind walked mountain-trolls to wield it."
(ROTK)

In the movie the great beasts are represented as huge buffalo or cow-like creatures.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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I have always wondered what these 'Great beasts' were. It appears to me that Tolkien left many things unamed in the Lotr whilst he named virtually everything in The Silmarillion.


 



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Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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Date: Oct 12, 2006
I've also noticed this MoS.

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Chief Maiar
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Date: May 3, 2007
I never really knew that they used Grond to attack MT... I always though the thing i see in the movies is a ram-like thing (however it seems to make me understand the "Omg" face on Gandalf when he see's it in the movie...). However, if that is Grond, can you tell me how Sauron layed his hands on it?

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...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.

Tom Bombadil
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Date: May 3, 2007
It looks to me, in the Movie, that it was forged in Barad-dûr, maybe in the same place the ring was made, only in the lower caverns of it. That thing was tough and heavy. It would make sense since the doors of Minas Tirith was strong as well. And to make it into a wolf 's head, it had to be melded or carved. I bet a lot of orcs bought it coming to close to the fire to make it.

-- Edited by ArwenLegolas at 18:04, 2007-05-03

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Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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It is hard to say where it came from, it could well be that it had been manufactured somewhere further east.
If you ask me, I would say it's Dwarves that did it.
There are 4 more houses that are not accounted for in the West and it is clearly specified in Tolkien's works that not all Dwarves are good. I find it very likely that tempted with riches, they allied with him and aided him how they could. Since the Dwarvish population was decreasing everywhere they didn't send any soldiers, but on the other hand made that up as smiths.
Of course it is only a theory, but to me it makes sense.

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Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
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Dwarves in Mordor forging Grond? I know there were over the course of the ages some evil Dwarves but I can't imagine actually working in Mordor. I thought they were more likely to do work from afar and then send it or give soldiers for battle.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: May 3, 2007
Not necessarily doing all the work themselves, but I can imagine them giving indications and advices
Yes, you're right there, but imagine how long it would take and how hard it would be to transport Grond...

EDIT: Yay! ²8o0 !evileye

-- Edited by The Might at 19:26, 2007-05-03

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Chief Maiar
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The name just made me think about something: are there any notes about what happened to Morgoth's Grond after the War of Wrath?

Congrats on 2800!

-- Edited by Olorin/Gandalf at 20:02, 2007-05-03

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...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.

Tom Bombadil
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Date: May 3, 2007
Yes, congratulations on passing 2800. And it would be interesting to find out what happened to Grond after the war. Maybe the Orcs left it when they all got destroyed by the King of the dead and his troups. Where else would it be but in MT? There was nobody left of the enemy to carry it away.

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Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: May 3, 2007
I believe that Olorin was referring to the original item carrying that name, Melkor's mighty mace
It is most likely that Grond lied somewhere on the bottom of the sea, together with the rest of the remains of Beleriand and Angband; I doubt there is any connection more then the name itself between the 2 items.
And yes, about the second one, I also believe it would be somewhere before the gates. The charge of Theoden won them the gate, and so all around Grond were scattered away. It might have been kept in remembrance, or, as it seems more likely to me, melted and used anew.

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Chief Maiar
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Yes, i was thinking about the hammer/mace. Thanks for the answer!
Why i really asked was 'cause i wanted to know whether the valar took it with them or not...
*Wonders what Melkor used at dagor Dagorlath biggrin.gif*

-- Edited by Olorin/Gandalf at 21:45, 2007-05-03

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...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.

Tom Bombadil
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Date: May 4, 2007
Oh, ok. The one that Morgoth carried when he slew Fingolfin before the gates of Angband.

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Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, Jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: May 7, 2007
Olorin/Gandalf wrote:
Yes, i was thinking about the hammer/mace. Thanks for the answer!
Why i really asked was 'cause i wanted to know whether the valar took it with them or not...
*Wonders what Melkor used at Dagor Dagorath biggrin.gif*
Well if Morgoth brings Sauron and his other evil minions back to life at the Dagor Dagorath then I doubt a mace would be too much of a problem.



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Peoples of Beleriand - Rank 1
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Date: Jun 4, 2007
The grond that was used to batter down the gate of Minas Tirith can't have been Morgoths weapon. I think that is must have been forged by Sauron. A big clue is that the weapon is shaped like a wolf's head. Wasn't Sauron Lord of Werewolves? I remember that being mentioned about him in The Silmarillion i think.

I'm nt sure who or what the weapon was forged by so i won't comment on it.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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As already discussed the Battering ram was named after Morgoth's mace of old.

The battering ram was forged in the deep pits of Mordor and was weilded by trolls.

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Men of Numenor - Rank 1
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Date: Jun 21, 2007
the weapon saron used in the seaconed(way off) age be grond. the hammer of the underworld

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Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
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Sauron never had a weapon called Grond. Morgoth did. Sauron had a great battering ram built in the late Third Age to use against Minas Tirith and named it after Morgoth's weapon of old.

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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Date: Jul 1, 2007

Grond

Battering ram used by Sauron's forces during the Siege of Gondor. Grond was 100 feet long. Its head was made of black steel and was shaped like a ravening wolf. Grond was hung from large engines of war by mighty chains. It was pulled by Great Beasts and wielded by Mountain-trolls. The massive battering ram had been forged in the smithies of Mordor and spells of ruin were laid on it.

Before dawn on March 15, 3019, Grond was pulled across the Pelennor Fields to the Great Gate of Minas Tirith. The Trolls swung Grond against the iron doors but they withstood the blow. Then the Witch-king cried words of terror and power in an ancient tongue three times, and each time Grond was hurled against the Gate. The third time, Grond crashed through the Gate with a flash of light and the doors split asunder and fell to the ground in pieces.

Names & Etymology:
Grond was named after the Hammer of the Underworld, the mace which Morgoth used in his battle with Fingolfin. The word grond means "club" in Sindarin from runda meaning "a rough piece of wood."

Sources:
The Return of the King: "The Siege of Gondor," p. 102
The Silmarillion: "Of the Ruin of Beleriand," p. 154
The History of Middle-earth, vol. V, The Lost Road and Other Writings: "The Etymologies," entry for RUD



Quoted from The Thain's Book



-- Edited by Erasmus Folly at 11:17, 2007-07-01

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Men of Numenor - Rank 1
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Date: Jul 9, 2007

Erasmus Folly, good show very well put.  It had no connection to Mongroths mce, it was simply named after it.



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Previous poll results (What is the 'Mightiest' weapon in Tolkiens myth?): Gurthang, blade of Turin - 28%, Narsil, sword of Elendil - 12%, Anduril, Sword of King Ellesar Aragorn - 23%, The Mace of the Witch King - 5%, Grond the dread hammer/hammer of the underworld -19%, Black axe of Gothmog - 4, Glamdring of Gandalf - 7%, Orcrist of Thorin - 1% A NEW POLL HAS BEEN ADDED TO TOLKIEN FORUMS Tolkien Forums - The Mythical world of J.R.R Tolkien