Enough room here to continue the previously begun discussion. I felt the need to do this, considering that the modeation team didn't. So, there you go, leave th "Greatest Man" thread be, and continue here.
Ok...so where were we...ah yes, I say American is more different then it seems. It is a dialect, not just slightly different.
Ich habe ein wenig Deutsch studiert, aber ich spreche es sehr schlecht. Noch erlerne ich. Maybe Elvish next?
As English is your second language, the differences between American and British English could give you trouble, or at least cause confusion. They are quite different. I also agree about it being its own dialect. Many languages have them. Not an entirely different language, but.... I think that if I spoke to certain Brits, we could have a good deal of difficulty understanding each other - and we speak the same language!
That meets the grounds for being a dialect of British English.
anyway, English is an official language in many other states such as Indiam South Africa or Australia I doubt the language there is exactly British English I mean, I doubt for example Steve Irwin (may he rest in peace) used Oxford English
The Might wrote: Englisch ist ja besser als Deutsch !
lol :(
I won't attempt it again, it was just for the novelty.
I just don't understand why anyone would disagree with this - French is spoken from Canada to Cambodia and nobody pretends that it's the same language as is spoken in France.
OK Celethil if American is so different from English then please list some COMMONLY used day to day words that are different from there English form by some degree...
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Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!
fag, torch, lorry, lift, wardrobe, loo, bin, telly, whilst, flat, knickers, idear, biscuit, chips, holiday, bloke, mate, football, mum, PA, petrol, yank, randy, nick, almost any word ending in -our, or -ise.
The words ending in -or or -ize are morphological difference though the meanings tend to remain the same.
The above word list contains words that are not used in American English at all or have substantially different connotations. Regarding the earlier post that said there are only about a dozen words that were different, my list is closer to two dozen and hardly complete. Im sure the slang is vastly different as well and I've avoided it because most is not proper for this forum. Need we discuss syntax as well?
Not all of us yanks are uneducated buffoons like our current leader.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
I must admit that once you get to know the Aussies and Kiwis, you learn to not only use the word 'dodgy' every day, but it becomes quite fun as well. Yob? That's a new one for me.
Btw, the Peoples of Beleriand have boosted the word count to well over 3 dozen.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
The secret Fire - I think you have missheard me. Most British people use those words - they are certainly not limited to America. They are called Slang in case you have not heard of it. So unless anyone can provide proper words that are of worth then I am afraid my point stands...
In other words - SLANG DOES NOT COUNT AS ITS NOT IN THE DICTIONARY FOR THE MOST PART AND THEREFORE DOES NOT COUNT AS PROPER WORDS.
-- Edited by Glorfindel1235 at 10:23, 2006-10-06
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Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!
The secret Fire - I think you have missheard me. Most British people use those words - they are certainly not limited to America. They are called Slang in case you have not heard of it. So unless anyone can provide proper words that are of worth then I am afraid my point stands...
In other words - SLANG DOES NOT COUNT AS ITS NOT IN THE DICTIONARY FOR THE MOST PART AND THEREFORE DOES NOT COUNT AS PROPER WORDS.
-- Edited by Glorfindel1235 at 10:23, 2006-10-06
same lack of cooperation and will of understanding I had expected why is it that you always have to quickly call what others say utterly flawed and don't give up until eventually the thread is other closed or the other side eventually gives up discussing. you know what...don't bother answering to that, it would probably only be done in the same style.
Fair enough. I don't believe my word list contained much, if any slang. TSF's use of tin and rubber were not slang. And I will also stand by my assertion that the syntax is substantially different and the morphology as well. Enough so to consider it a dialect.
I think the fact that most people of either country recognize there is a difference other than accent is more than enough reason to consider American English a dialect of British English.
-- Edited by Celethil at 16:17, 2006-10-06
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
fag, bloke, lorry, chuffed, yob, loo, mate, nick, knickers etc etc etc - Most of it is slang.
But anyone is a matter of opinion. Personally I don't think that there are enough differences for American English to be a different dialect - not by a long stretch, but its just my opinion.
Fag, mate, and knickers, are not slang. They actually have taken on different connotations in both versions of English. To type the few slang words then type 'etc etc' and claim most of it slang when most of it isnt, then to ignore the differences in morphology and syntax is intriguing.
I suppose its ok that you did say that its not enough difference for you and that its only your opinion.
Most of my British friends who have been over here for a while, readily accept that it is a dialect. Especially those who have been unfortunate enough to have spent time in the southern states.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
I thought that this thread was mostly for joking around. Not to disrespect anyone, but I just thought this one was for fun. I really don't think that anyone needs to use such harsh words to anyone else! Even if this was the most serious thread on this forum, there is still no need for it at all. I like to stay in a good mood. And this is hard when you go to your favorite forum, and still have to deal with all of the arguing! I just think that friendly words would have suficed!!!
We have not used harsh words. No one here I think feels offended save yourself Gil Galad. It was obviously going to be a heated debate as you could see from when this topic originated in the other thread.
Sorry, I was in a very bad mood that day. I was pissed because I thought I would feel better coming here and found a debate in a place I didn't look for.
And no I didn't know that this would be a heated debate.
Well yes but we know that by the time America sought to detach themselves from the Empire British empire was on the decline. Its valiant rulers were waning and the rule was given to lesser people. I don't think that the British Empire (which covered 3/4 of the world) armies were fully implemented. Had they were then I VERY much doubt America would have won. Indeed if America had been more patient we would have given them freedom like we did the Australians.
There are many 'could haves' in history. Germany could have won WWII if they had developed nuclear weapons first. Napoleon, the Khans, Alexander... all 'could haves'. It is HIGHLY unlikely that England would have given autonomy to the American colonies given the vast land mass and natural resources that were untapped. That makes no sense at all. I would look to South Africa as an example.
Australia was a completely different scenario.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Firstly forgive me but refer to 'Britian' not just 'England'. There are 3 other principalities involved above England.
As I say at the time the rulers of the British Empire were not thinking of expanding but simply letting what land they had go. The ones who actually made Britianthe most powerful country were gone. Therefore America would have ended up getting there country, even if it was not all the country at one time.
as Celethil said could haves don't matter in history you lost. end of story
and just as as a reply to your last topic Celethil, just a small detail about Germany (I'm not trying to lecture or teach you, just giving some info) Germany never tried to build a nuclear weapon since the physicists in Germany never thought of telling Hitler that one could be built. Einstein wrongly thought that Germany was building one and so asked that the USA should build one before. Ironically, Germany never tried to make one, and the loser in the whole situation was Japan who suffered from the effects of Einstein's fear.
Firstly TM: We did lose yes. But America won a pritty easily forgotten war (if you can call it that).
Whereas Germany (you) had half the world on your side and you strtill could not beat us or the French. (forget the American's they joined in too late).
So which is better to Win a feeble dispute or to lose a pritty easy battle to win?
LoL That just goes to show how history is viewed by different cultures. In the US, the American Revolution is not easily forgotten, as it is the war by which we claimed our independence.
Downplaying the American intervention in WWII, though the method by which the US entered the war is highly suspect, borders on the ridiculous ( at least in American history texts ). I am not saying that as a slight, but rather as another example of the difference in point of view by nation / culture.
TM- As for Germany trying to develop a nuclear weapon, I stand corrected. I am not an authority on German history and accept that your history texts give more detail than my cursory glance. As for what happened to Japan, I think that was an utter disgrace to America, if an atomic bomb needed to be used, Germany should have been the target (no offense intended to the Germans, simply fact).
I am not sure what MoS is calling a feeble dispute or a easily won battle. What history has shown us in retrospect, is that the the loss of the American Revolution was a great loss to Great Britian.
Given the discussion above, if America had lost the Revolution, there would have been no need for America to enter WWII through manipulation but rather, I doubt Germany would have undertaken the war in the first place.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Losing America was a great loss for Great Britian indeed BUT it did not matter as we were giving the land away anyway if you see what I mean.
I have a hunch that America is now at its peak and will soon downgrade again.
As you say it depends on what county your in. We don't even learn about the Amercian revolution in school (we certainly didn't in my day).
Celethil - can you see what I mean when I say that if Britian was to stop beings your allies, or even if we were to start a war against you, most of the world would be on our side? Exactly like the 'realms of Beleriand' thread. We are the Elven Kingdoms blocking you (Doriath) from the threat that lays without.
Great Britain was only giving the land in the US away, because its value had not been discovered at the time. It was a land mass that was beyond anyone's comprehension at the time. The west coast was not even settled until long after the revolution.
MoS - I was not doubting that most of the world would side with Great Britain if there were to be a global conflict at this point in time. In fact, I think it would be EXTREMELY likely that the EU would side with Great Britain.
Depending on the nature of such a conflict China might side with Europe as well. The middle-east is only a concern in regard to oil distribution. Russia would likely just follow the pack or may stay out of such a conflict entirely. Over here, Canada and most of South America would likely avoid such a conflict as well.
The major variable is leadership in the US, which as we know, has to change every 8 years.
I cannot say that I agree with the Beleriand reference, as the two oceans between the Americas and the rest of the world are key to defense, and in the case of Doriath, the Noldor were the greater force. There is no great force without, and the threat of nuclear warfare forces the world to use diplomatic and economic weaponry.
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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
I beleive Australia would soon join Britian as well. As thanks to us for giving them there independence.
Either way its a pretty bad outlook for the great US. No oil, or very limited. Few countries would give them supplies for fear of being named as allies to US and enemies of the East and the US would be surrounded in a sea of enemies. Some coming over the pacific, some from the Atlantic.
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Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!
take care Celethil, seems from these posts your doom and your nation's doom is near!!! anyway, I agree with you, especially as far as the way the US entered WWII disguising trasport ships with weapons as medical ships and then claiming we're the bad guys for destroying the ships is not so nice either. But war is war nonetheless... and as far as land is concerned...do you really think for example Mexico would have ever given Texas away if they knew how much it would one day be worth? (I do believe Texas alongside other souther states was bought sometime in the 1980s from Mexico, correct me if I am wrong) and the tone of the discussion is starting to become a little bit too harsh I am personally not so easy offended as I am not very nationalistic, however I know many people in Germany who would, so please only reffer to historical truth if you must and don't exagerate anything.
