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Topic: Most powerful weapons in Middle-Earth

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Date: Sep 2, 2006
Most powerful weapons in Middle-Earth

What are the most powerful weapons in Middle-Earth? I'm sure someone will mention Sauron's ring so I will get that one out of the way for you. List 3 or more.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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Interesting question Celethil, as a weapon doesn't necessarily correspond to a sword, ax, or bow.


Although the sword of my namesake Anduril is certainly a powerful weapon. Not just because of it's practical uses (i.e. lopping of the odd Orc head), but because of what it represented to Sauron, and the fear it caused in him. Forcing him to act precipitously, and in the end aiding in his downfall.


Number two would have to be the Magic of the Wise, for it brought down one of the foulest creatures in ME...a Balrog, as one example.


The third and probably most important would have to be love. Not to get all wishy-washy, but without love ME would have surely fallen to Sauron. It was love that drove Aragorn to fulfill his destiny, and thereby win the hand of Arwen. It was love of Theoden, that brought the Witch King of Angmar to his demise at the hands of Eowen. And let's not forget Sam's love for Frodo, without whom the quest would have never come to an end, and Sauron would have taken back what is his.



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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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woww...I couldn't agree more...especially about love


because love usually makes us do things we would normally never be able to do, and so in a way makes us better...and, yes I also think that only by love it was possible that ME was saved



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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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It is true, love can drive us to do anything (for good or ill), and without what would be the point of saving anything.

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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Interesting philosophical twist. Though I would counter that love and other abstracts should not be considered as weapons. The very nature of love renders it outside the definition of a weapon.

Sauron LOVED the One Ring, but to no avail.

The Magic of the Wise is a limited answer as well. Since the wise do not even see what they do as 'magic', which is just the human word to used to conceptualize the powers of the world.
Anduril, Narsil, Nenya, Vilya, the Palantiri, Glamdring, the Phial of Galadriel and her Mirror, Orcrist, Angrist, and all other powerful weapons would fall under the Magic of the Wise.



-- Edited by Celethil at 20:11, 2006-09-10

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Valar
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Love can be a very powerful thing, as one of those songs goes...'love finds a way, some people change.'  Something like that.


Anyway, I agree with Celethil though, love I wouldn't classify as a weapon, it's more of a motivation as to why someone makes the choices he/she does.



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I am Lórien, Lord of Dreams, my true name is 'Irmo' in Quenya.
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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Celethil wrote:


Interesting philosophical twist. Though I would counter that love and other abstracts should not be considered as weapons. The very nature of love renders it outside the definition of a weapon.

Sauron LOVED the One Ring, but to no avail.

The Magic of the Wise is a limited answer as well. Since the wise do not even see what they do as 'magic', which is just the human word to used to conceptualize the powers of the world.
Anduril, Narsil, Nenya, Vilya, the Palantiri, Glamdring, the Phial of Galadriel and her Mirror, Orcrist, Angrist, and all other powerful weapons would fall under the Magic of the Wise.



-- Edited by Celethil at 20:11, 2006-09-10




Okay, saying that love is a weapon, maybe a little abstract, but...


I would say that Sauron, cannot love anything, least of all the Ring!! Sauron needed the Ring, and created it, not out of love, but rather a Lust for power over ME. Biiiig Difference!!!



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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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I'm going to have to debate you on that one. I would not say that Sauron was incapable of loving the One Ring.

Sauron created the One Ring lusting for power and control, but in doing so he invested the majority of his power into it. He was bound to the ring and could not survive without it. If there was anything in Middle-Earth that he was capable of loving it was the One Ring.



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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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That's just it, though. Being bound to the Ring, is not the same thing, as loving it. To love the Ring for Sauron, is like saying I love my rifle. It is a tool, nothing more. Well, in Sauron's case, it was more like a vessel, to hold the wealth of his evil.


 


Although, I do have to admit, I'm pretty fond of my sword (Anduril)...



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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
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I would agree with you if the ring were simply a weapon, like a sword. It was a weapon, but it was also his very life. Without it he could not exist in Middle-Earth. You may be pretty fond of your sword, but if it were destroyed you would not die (or maybe you would lol).

I dont think that you can so simplistic as to refer to the ring as a tool and nothing more. It had a will of its own, ever seeking to return to its master and causing as much suffering as possible along the way.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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I agree, the Ring is much more hen a tool to Sauron. I just meant that Sauron's mind is so preoccupied (or should I say infected/infested) with evil, that love is an alien emotion, and his poisoned mind cannot possibly grasp it. That's why I replaced Love with Lust.

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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
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Ok now we are taking off into philosophical territory.

One aspect of evil could be seen as a perversion of/obsession with love of self. The ring for all intents and purposes would be considered Sauron's 'self'. I would not deny that Sauron was wholly evil, but I would not say that love is an alien emotion to him. I doubt that he is capable of loving another entity, but he certainly is capable of loving himself to the point of perversion.

pssssssst.... I think its time to move this discussion to the Analytical Forum as it has transitioned to an entirely different topic.



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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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Celethil,


I think you're right. So we need a third weapon, if not love, and I supose hope, and honor are out as well, so ...I'm drawing a complete blank.


What about the army of the dead? It's funny, because if Aragorn had not released them after taking on the Corsairs, they could have made short work of the Orcs during the battle of the Black Gates.



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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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This is a common mistake:


The Army of the Dead cannot fight the living like they did in the film. They can only scare the opposition.


Thus is why they probably would have been of little use entering Mordor, Sauron power over his forces would probably exceed the fear of the dead.



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My Master Sauron the Great bids thee Welcome....
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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mouth of sauron wrote:



This is a common mistake:


The Army of the Dead cannot fight the living like they did in the film. They can only scare the opposition.


Thus is why they probably would have been of little use entering Mordor, Sauron power over his forces would probably exceed the fear of the dead.




That's because you're biased, and always favor your master...

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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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LoL

Nice rebuttal. I am going to try to steer this thread back on course. Instead of the Army of the Dead as a weapon, or Orcs, or Trolls, or abstracts, let's try to limit the discussion to physical / magical weaponry in the traditional sense.

My top 3 choices would be:

Ringil
The One Ring
Mormegil


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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Well if you mean weapon as in a true weapon, then Grond, the Dreadhammer would be first...

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Sam's frying pan

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LOL. Sorry TM but I have to put my vote elsewere.


I vote for Helm Hammerhands fist.



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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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What about Tulkas' hands.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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If they called him "Tulkus Hammerhand" then I would vote for his fists.

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Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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For me the third would have to be the Blade of the Westernesse (sp?) which Merry used to pierce the knee of the Witch-King. This is what severed his spirit from his bodily form, and lead to his demise.



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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
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Blade of Westernesse is just a title that means it was made in Numenor. It may have been a very nice blade and perhaps even imbued with some small measure of power, but hardly worthy of mention with some of the other weapons in this thread.

Rigil
Aranruth
Gurthang
Grond
Glamdring
Narsil
Angrist
Anglachel
Aeglos
Orcrist
The One Ring
Narya
Nenya
Vilya

Let's see if we can add to that list.


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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Mace of Sauron and the Mace of the Witchking?

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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They both looked powerful in the movie. I would imagine they were powerful weapons, especially given that Sauron was a maia of Aule.

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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Celethil wrote:


Blade of Westernesse is just a title that means it was made in Numenor. It may have been a very nice blade and perhaps even imbued with some small measure of power, but hardly worthy of mention with some of the other weapons in this thread.

Rigil
Aranruth
Gurthang
Grond
Glamdring
Narsil
Angrist
Anglachel
Aeglos
Orcrist
The One Ring
Narya
Nenya
Vilya

Let's see if we can add to that list.



Correct me if I'm wrong... but wasn't there a line in the book describing how only his blade of the westernesse could pierce the Witch-King's foul hide... I'm paraphrasing here, but I seem to recall that. Is so, then I wouldn't dismiss it so cavalierly.

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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
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The answer to your question is actually more of a mystery than I thought. Here is the quote from the book:

So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.- RoTK

It was not called the 'Blade of Westernesse'. It was actually a dagger made by the Numenoreans in Arnor.

It appears the blade was forged in Arnor in the first half of the Third Age, though I cannot make the comment about it make sense in my head, unless that particular blade was made specifically to stab the Lord of the Nazgul. The quote does state that Angmar and the Witch-King were chief among Arnor's foes.

I hardly think Anduril would be ineffective against the Witch-King since even broken it clove the ring from Sauron's hand. Both Glamdring and Orcrist were used against things far more foul than the Witch-King.

-- Edited by Celethil at 03:23, 2006-10-04

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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Celethil,


   I was using the term Blade of the Westernesse as a descriptor, not as the actual name of the blade. The point was that as you stated in your quote from the book, it was obviously a blade of some power.



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I am Anduril, who was Narsil. Let the thralls of Mordor fear me.
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I omitted Sting from the list as well. The only knife I included on the list was Angrist, as that blade was noted as one of the sharpest weapons ever made.

I in no way am dismissing the Merry's knife as inconsequential, I am just not considering it among the most powerful in Middle-Earth. The quote from the RoTK does appear to dispute that and so I guess it should be considered reluctantly, but then I should consider Sting as well.

I am somewhat surprised that no one jumped on me for my incorrect spelling of Ringil.

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Previous poll results (What is the 'Mightiest' weapon in Tolkiens myth?): Gurthang, blade of Turin - 28%, Narsil, sword of Elendil - 12%, Anduril, Sword of King Ellesar Aragorn - 23%, The Mace of the Witch King - 5%, Grond the dread hammer/hammer of the underworld -19%, Black axe of Gothmog - 4, Glamdring of Gandalf - 7%, Orcrist of Thorin - 1% A NEW POLL HAS BEEN ADDED TO TOLKIEN FORUMS Tolkien Forums - The Mythical world of J.R.R Tolkien