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Topic: Glamdring

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Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Date: Aug 29, 2006
Glamdring

This is actually regarding Glamdring, Orcrist, and Sting. Does anyone know just how Turgon's sword ended up in Middle-Earth? And is there any mention of who owned Orcrist or Sting? Were all three weapons from Gondolin?

These are just some questions that I never heard a proper answer for.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Aug 29, 2006
yes, all were weapons from Gondolin, and all were forged sometime between the 2nd and 5th centuries of the FA, in the time Gondolin existed
they were also all High Elven swords (or knives in the case of Sting) that had a blueish light when Orcs were near
well, there is really no way to really know what happened to the swords in the time between the fall of Gondolin and the moment they were found in the trolls' cave, though Tolkien does give us a hint:

"They are not troll-make. They are old swords, very old swords of the High Elves of the West, my kin. They were made in Gondolin for the Goblin-wars. They must have come from a dragon's hoard or goblin plunder, for dragons and goblins destroyed that city many ages ago." ... "I could not say, but one may guess that your trolls had plujndered other plunderers, or come to the remnants of old robberies in some hold in the mountains. I have heard there are still forgotten treasures of old to be found in the deserted caverns of the mines of Moria, since the dwarf and goblin war."
(The Hobbit - A short rest)

this is what Elrond said about the blades, and I think it is a very plausable theory.
it could very well be that the blades were stolen at the fall of Gondolin, that the goblins then went to Middle-earth after the destruction of Beleriand, and that the trolls somehow finally got the blades after plundering some goblins or some goblins that plundered other goblins, etc.

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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We know all three were from Gondolin at some point. As for how they got from there to the trolls cave in The Hobbit is utter speculation. Perhaps create your own theory in the fanfic forum.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Well, you could even write your own story...
But eventually all swords passed away...2 in the West, and 1 buried somewhere in the Lonely Mountain...so it's not such a great end to their story

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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Date: Aug 30, 2006
So there is no record of who owned Orcrist?

Thanks for the quote TM. It gives quite an interesting view into the mind of Elrond. He does not seem at all surprised or moved by seeing the weapon of his great grandfather recovered by dwarves and a hobbit in a troll hoard.



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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Now as far Orcrist is concerned there is no infromation, but here is my speculation:
As the "mate" to King Turgon's sword Glamdring, Orcrist was likely borne by a high ranking lord in the King's entourage. Only four possibilities present themselves: Maeglin, Tuor, Ecthelion of the Fountain, and Glorfindel. Since Maeglin presumably still had his father's sword, Anguirel, it was not his. Tuor seems to have come to Gondolin after Glamdring had been forged (see Unfinished Tales), and if this was the mate it should have been forged before his arrival as well. In any case, Tuor bore an axe, not a sword. This leaves only Ecthelion and Glorfindel. Of the two, Glorfindel died outside of the city, falling together with the Balrog and probably losing the sword there — only Ecthelion perished in Gondolin slaying Gothmog, lord of the Balrogs. Thus, the most probable assumption is that Orcrist belonged to Ecthelion, but this is never stated explicitly in any of Tolkien's writings.

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Royal Guard of Menegroth - Rank 5
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I thought that Ecthelion wielded a spear. Or am I just deriving that from his name?

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Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I dunno...
his name does mean the point of a spear...but that doesn't mean he actually had one

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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Date: Oct 1, 2006

I know that Maeglin had is Fathers sword, that Tour weilded an Axe, and that Glrofindel died outside of Gondolin (As did Tour). But I was under the inpression that he had a sword.


I read in BoLT that he wielded a sword. Although, I don't really trust BoLT that much. It has mesed me up on more than one occasion. 



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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Don't be to hard on Bolt Gil-galad. Although much of it has changed in Tolkien's later drafts you will find far more of it it still correct than what is not. Some would say that its what Tolkien originally thought that is more important to what he changed his mind to.



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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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Date: Oct 2, 2006
I never thought about it that way before. Most people I've talked to said that the latest are the best.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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of course latest is the best
he didn't change his mind without a good reason, he was a smart guy

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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I know that TM. I meant that it's hard to take something from BoLT as fact when there might be something to disprove it out there.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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that was meant as a response to Glorfindel's remark about people thinking that the first thoughts are perhaps the best ones.

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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There are points on both sides for this.


On the one hand it could be that whatever hit Tolkien's imagination first is the best thing to use, on the other hand it could be that whatever Tolkien thought to change could be. Its up to personal opinion.



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