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Topic: Maps of Arda page

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Jul 7, 2006
Maps of Arda page

Just thought I would express my admirations to the new 'Maps of Arda' page. I know that maps of the entire of Arda are hard to come by so I'm glad we now have this as reference!

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Maiar
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Date: Jul 7, 2006
I wholeheartedly agree! I just looked at the new page and I believe it shall be a wonderful reference for members of the forums especially because most times you only come across those maps that show just Middle-Earth. It's nice to be able to see what the whole of Arda looks like put into perspective!

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Jul 8, 2006
I agree too, it is indeed a very good idea

btw I am back!!!

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Yeah i thought it was particularly useful for you TM as it contains maps I don't think you have seen before.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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still...I have 2 problems
1- the maps contain quite many mistakes
2- I am worried about the copyright problem (EoA for example)

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Could you list the mistakes on which map?


Also I doubt there is much to worry about copyright, otherwise they would not have been added by the great One. Perhaps contact him if your worried though.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Jul 8, 2006
for example the second map
the distribution of names make it look like these were different regions
but actually Endor, Hither Lands and ME are one and the same, no need to put them all on the map
Harad is too far south
the woods except those in ME are made purely out of fantasy
Tolkien never ever clearly said where they are
the position of Numenor in Arda is again guessed
the only map of Numenor is the one in the Unfinished Tales, of the island alone
it is to guess it was further North
also, the third map contains many, many details...that Tolkien never ever drew
there are many many such maps on the net...where things have been added
he did indeed draw the shape of the Bay of Forochel, but not for the Northern shores of ME as far as I know
as I said many things are simply best guess
they give us an idea of how Arda looked like - the problem is this is not always the correct view

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Jul 8, 2006

Unfortunatley TM you are ncorrect.


Numenor is placed very accurately as its most northwestern point should reach about 800 miles to the shores of ME. Numenor is closer to Valinor and that is also listed on the map.


The woods are all accurate except the ones in the Lands of Sun - I beleive they have been speculatively put there.


Southern ME is reknown for being mostly wooded, as are the north and south of Valinor as well as the pastures of Yavanna. Also the Dark south land is mostly wooded and that is listed on the map.


The Hither lands is a name for the southern part of Middle-earth, and there is no problem in giving multiple names for peoples to know.


The only problem is the third map. I don't think Tolkien gave that many names but there is no way of telling that he did not map the far north.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Jul 8, 2006
no way of telling?
he didn't make any map on that matter
all these maps are made by other people - some by reading Tolkien's writings and thinking approximatively how Arda looked like and others inventing things on their own
it is good to get an idea about things, I don't say the maps are not useful, but for example, when see the thirs map and immediately believe that all the names listed in the south of ME are true, then the maps are not so helpful for your knowledge

as I said, I only listed some mistakes, I am sure a person with more interest in ME geography could easily spot more
the woods, were never exactly drawn, this map was drawn only from the accounts of Numeronean voyages and perhaps a little fantasy

and I'd like to also quote the notes made by the people from the EoA about the first map (which very much resembles the second)

"The map of Arda shown here is based on Maps IV and (especially) V reproduced by Christopher Tolkien in volume IV of The History of Middle-earth. These maps belong to an early phase of Tolkien's mythology, and in a few cases the nomenclature of the originals has been updated (for example, Map V refers to the region known in the published Silmarillion as Avathar by its older name Arvalin).

The main point of conjecture on the map is the placing of the Ered Luin and Orocarni. In fact, Map V does not name these mountain ranges, but Map IV shows ranges in these locations, and labels them the 'Blue Mountains' and 'Red Mountains' respectively. Equally, the range stretching southwest from Helcar into the (unnamed) southern continent might possibly correspond to an older conception of a range known as the Grey Mountains (quite unrelated to the northern range of the same name).

It's important to remember that the original maps on which this one is based predate the stories of the Third Age, and aren't entirely compatible with the later geography of Middle-earth. In particular, the relatively small northern continent would probably need to be rather larger than is shown here to accommodate all the lands that Tolkien later devised."

As you see, they themselves say that the maps are helpful, but are not be taken as a totally correct thing.
The were drawn by Christopher Tolkien, and he had indeed the approval of his father, but, as stated they belong to an early phase in Tolkien's creation...so they are not totally correct

and another thing
please take a look here

Map

it is a bigger image of the third map...and it is totally worthless
there are at least 1000 names on the map that NEVER appear in any creation of Tolkien, and many areas, that neither he nor Christopher ever drew in such detail
it is clear it is the work of some fans with too much fantasy

the problem is when people start coming and ask...was there really a town called...blablabla in that region of ME...that is why I am against this map

for example I found a better map, exactly as the one in the UT, with some corrections to the earlier map:
A better map



-- Edited by The Might at 19:45, 2006-07-08

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Jul 9, 2006

Firstly I agree it contains many names of small towns that Tolkien has never listed, but it also contains all the proper names in the places, so its not inaccurate exactly.


Secondly the second link you have given TM is to the exact same map as the first.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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oh sorry...that was a small type mistake of me...
here is the map I meant:

MAP OF MIDDLE EARTH

-- Edited by The Might at 11:05, 2006-07-09

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Could you make these maps a bit smaller TM?


Also we have all seen this map loads of times. It does not go very far north, and it does not include the old ruins of Morgoth's realm like Thangorodrim, which is correctly listed in the map you don't like.
It also doesn't go far south nor the Islands on the west shores of ME.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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But do you know why?
Because they were never clearly drawn.
Using a map as the one you proposed is wrong.
Why?
Because Tolkien never drew it that way, and because he never named all those regions.
Komi? Siita? Järvamaa?
Sounds more like some Finnish names chosen by fans with far too much imagination.
There is a limit that shouldn't be crossed even in non-lore threads.
And this map croses the limit, as it shows things Tolkien never thought of.
If you would take them for granted we wouldn't have a ME story anymore, but a...strange lands made up by some fans story

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Well obviously it was good enough for the Powers to supply, so i suppose it must be good enough for everyone.


Also the Islands west of ME and Thangorodrim WERE drawn as the are the reminance of Beleriand that did not sink underwater.



-- Edited by mouth of sauron at 10:58, 2006-07-09

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Wait a sec....do you mean Thangorodrim figures on that map as an island?

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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No. I mean the map gives an accurate disposition to where it was in the First Age.

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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Date: Apr 21, 2010

Maby a few more maps would help? (A mod may want to replace some of the larger maps with links (I'm not sure how to do that) to avoid the page distortion seen below...)


A hand drawn map of Arda by JRR Tolkien himself:

A relabeled version of the mostly inaccurate Second Age world map:

A slightly less cluttered and (quite frankly) better looking map of Beleriand:

A rather detailed (but sadly non-English) map of the north-west of Arda:

A great map of NW Middle-earth:


I'd rather like to find those on the maps page. ;)

Oh, and to the one who complained about the fanon: I don't think there's anything wrong with expanding on what Tolkien never mantioned. Personally, I think he'd like us filling in the gaps with out imagination. Infact, I'm working on a hand drawn and incredibly detailed (and rather large) map of the entire Arda, including Eastland and Southland.



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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Nice maps there, EOA.

It is a shame that the maps of Beleriand and north-western Middle-earth in the Third Age have to be so big in order to be able to see the place names.

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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good stuff This post has been somewhat of a revelation to me.

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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I think that the explorer of arda is right. There is no matter that the third map is not accurate. It has hundrends of unknown names but it is just something from the imagination of someone. He made up lots of things and drawn a great map.

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Guard of Armenelos - Rank 4
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Date: Oct 17, 2012
Very cool!

Made me dizzy!

Right on!

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Tom Bombadil
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These Maps were MY Gift to the Forums. They were accumulated and refurbished by one of my friends, with whom I lost touch, because the Site we both were on, folded.

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Haldir of Lorien - Rank 6
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http://aidanmoher.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/A_Map_of_Middle-earth_and_the_Undying_Lands_color.jpeg



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Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
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It's an interesting map. However, my understanding is that it is a long way off, geographically-speaking. Contrast it with the maps by Karen Wynn Fonstad.

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Tom Bombadil
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Those were painstakingly researched by a friend from a forum of which I was a member at one time.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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They are nicely illustrated but I do think they may not be entirely accurate in comparison to the one's in the Atlas of Middle Earth.

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