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Topic: Sauron and the Shire

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Posts: 2161
Date: Apr 12, 2006
Sauron and the Shire

Why did Sauron have to look so hard in the Third age for the Shire?
I believe I am correct saying that the Witch king of Angmar would know where the Shire was located as it was in Arnor - the Realm which the WitchKing took over and destroyed.
Also Hobbits fought along with the men of Arnor against Angmar.


Altogether the WitchKing must have known its location so why would sauron have to spend so long to look for it?


Some quotes would be useful.



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Posts: 3118
Date: Apr 12, 2006
well you wanted some quotes, there you have some quotes:
Ultimately indomitable he was, except by death, as Sauron did not fully comprehend, being himself consumed by lust for the ring. Then he became filled with a hatred of Sauron even greater than his terror, seeing in him truly his greatest enemy and rival. Thus it was that he dared to pretend that he believed that the land the Halflings was near to the places where he had once dwelt beside the banks of the Gladden.
(Unfinished Tales, Hunt for the Ring)
As we see he had no idea at all about the place where the halflings dwelt before he captured Gollum.
Also about the witch king:
Spare me! I speak as swiftly as I may. West through the Gap of Rohan yonder, and then north and a little west, until the next great river bars the way; the Greyflood it is called. Thence from the crossing at Tharbad the old road will lead you to the borders. 'The Shire,' they call it.
this is what Grima Wormtongue told the witch king to have his life spared by him. So as we see all this info came only in that time. The halflings also barely fought against the witch king while he dwelt in Angmar, they only sent some archers to fight which never returned, or only one of them returned, I dunno.

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Valar
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Posts: 140
Date: Apr 27, 2006
As The Might said, Sauron didn't know where it was located, just that he knew someone by the name of Baggins had the Ring and he was in the Shire.  It's not all that uncommon either, as we hear about Boromir getting lost on his way to Rivendell, as he really had no clue where he was going.  Since Sauron had never heard of the Shire, nor halflings before this time, he wouldn't have known where it was.

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I am Lórien, Lord of Dreams, my true name is 'Irmo' in Quenya.
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Posts: 3118
Date: Apr 27, 2006
also, I just wanted to make myself a little more clear...Sauron never sent the Ringwraiths to the Shire, he sent them to the Gladden Fields, where he believed that this "Baggins" lived. It was only after the Ringwraiths captured Grima Wormtounge that he told them where exactly the Shire was.
Also I would like to add that not Grima provided the best information for the Nazgul, but the strange looking man the hobbits saw later in Bree.
"One of them had been used much in the traffic between Isengard and the Shire, and though he had not himself been beyond the Southfarthing he had charts prepared by Saruman which clearly depicted and described the Shire. These the Nazgűl took, and then sent him on to Bree to continue spying; but warned him that he was now in the service of Mordor, and that if ever he tried to return to Isengard they would slay him with torture."
(Unfinished Tales, Hunt for the Ring)
It was happy that gave them the well made maps that clearly helped them find Bag End a lot sooner, and he also spied on the hobbits in Bree. (probably he was also the one that stole the ponies)

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Posts: 2372
Date: May 14, 2006
I believe you got the idear of the Nazgul capturing Grima from Unfinished Tales The Might? If so you should not have concluded with this statment. Unfinished Tales also suggests alternatives for the Ringwraiths finding the shire. One being that Sarumans 'spy' in The shire was found by the Nazgul and questioned. Then they found out the Saruman did after all know the location of The Shire after he had denied it to the Lord of the Nazgul.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: May 14, 2006
you really are funny.
I write the smae thing 10 lines above but you don't see it.
I wonder if you read my posts at all.
A small quote:

Also I would like to add that not Grima provided the best information for the Nazgul, but the strange looking man the hobbits saw later in Bree.
"One of them had been used much in the traffic between Isengard and the Shire, and though he had not himself been beyond the Southfarthing he had charts prepared by Saruman which clearly depicted and described the Shire. These the Nazgűl took, and then sent him on to Bree to continue spying; but warned him that he was now in the service of Mordor, and that if ever he tried to return to Isengard they would slay him with torture."
(Unfinished Tales, Hunt for the Ring)
It was happy that gave them the well made maps that clearly helped them find Bag End a lot sooner, and he also spied on the hobbits in Bree. (probably he was also the one that stole the ponies)

and considering the fact I wrote underneath the quote Unfinished Tales I would say that yes, I did get that idea from there.
So one thing to ask, please, from now on, read my post before posting yourself.


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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: May 14, 2006
I am sorry. I misread the post.

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My Master Sauron the Great bids thee Welcome....
 
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