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Topic: Angmar vs Arnor

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Posts: 3118
Date: May 17, 2006
RE: Angmar vs Arnor
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ok...
I play along again
let's say the Orcs would with big effort go in the boats
let's say the Gondorian navy wouldn't notice them
why would the WK want that position.
I say only one quote:

"who came north with the purpose of destroying the Dúnedain in Arnor, seeing hope in their disunion, while Gondor was strong."
the wk never wanted to try to fight Gondor...it was too strong

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: May 18, 2006
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Well he never tried so we will never know.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Posts: 3118
Date: May 18, 2006
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no...I correct you there
he never wanted to try.
he never wanted that place as it had many big problems
all he wanted was a nice place in the north, safe away from Gondor from which he could attack Arnor.
and he found it in the north of the Misty Mountains.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: May 18, 2006
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He didn't need to attack Arnor, as it was attacking itself. If he went where I said and managed to hold off Gondor long enough for the coming of the Wainriders and legions from the south he would have been able to destroy Gondor and Arnor in one.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: May 18, 2006
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listen..HE DID NOT WANT THAT
tolkien says clearly what he wanted
"The lord of that land was known as the Witch-king, but it was not known until later that he was indeed the chief of the Ringwraiths, who came north with the purpose of destroying the Dúnedain in Arnor, seeing hope in their disunion, while Gondor was strong."
(lotr, appendix B)
now if the words "with the purpose of destroying the Dúnedain in Arnor" don't say what he wanted...then I don't know what could
he wanted to only eliminate the Dunedain
no huge plan with the Easterlings...and no need to speculate he would ever try such a thing

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: May 18, 2006
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He DID NOT WANT that becuase he thought it was not feasible, just like he thought no living man could kill him, but he was proved wrong there and, becuase he did not attemp it, he could have been proved wrong in that he could have destroyed Gondor.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Posts: 3118
Date: May 18, 2006
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that is a difference
one has to do with arrogance
the other is just the opposite
the wk was arrogant and thought no man could kill him, but he wasn't that arrogant as to believe he could defeat Gondor
and after reading the rules for debate I realised something
you aren't doing lore here, you are making a debate
why?
because you are using no quotes you try to defend your own position even when I have clear proof for the other side

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: May 18, 2006
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Whether quotes or no, arguments like this will come up in Lore anyway. If this was a debate we would be constructing the argument in a more mannered fasion.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Posts: 3118
Date: May 18, 2006
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actually glorfindel I am quite curious
what is your opinionß
given the quotes stated above about the situation of Gondor in the time, do you think the wk would have made through all of Gondor to the place between the Isen and the Greyflood

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: May 18, 2006
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I do not think there was much possibility going through Gondor itself. However I think the WK could have sailed out into Belegaer or found some unknown pass over the misty mountains. Then i think he would have succeeded in Holding Gondor off until the time of the Wainriders.

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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Posts: 3118
Date: May 18, 2006
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I think that is impossible
why?
1. Gondor was too strong for the wk to hold off as once he was there he would receive no reenforcements
2. because the wainriders had been totally defeated just a few years earlier by Romendacil.
and he drove far away from Rhun
so there would be need for much time till they could regroup and attack again

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: May 19, 2006
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You do seem to be forgetting about Dol Guldur The Might, the WK would not be entirely alone. I do not think the WK would be strong enough to remotely defeat Gondor but this location would be at the opposite end to where all the great fortresses were so I do think he could have held off until the revolts later on. He would only have Gondor to deal with. No Rivendell or Elves of North Mirkwood or any other problems, he could just concentrate on Gondor. And also the Only place to cross the riven Isen was at the Fords so Gondor would be limited as to how much of the WK realm they could get at.

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Maiar
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Posts: 172
Date: May 19, 2006
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I am now closing this thread as its approaching the 100 thread limit and has little more to offer. Thank You.

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