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Topic: 1973

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Hobbits of The Shire - Rank 1
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Date: Mar 30, 2006
1973

Is it not weird and mystical how the year of Tolkien's death fits with the numbers from the beggining of the LOTR. Was he able to predict the year of his death.


3 Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky
7 for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone
9 for Mortal Men doomed to die,
1 for the Dark Lord on his dark throne.


1973. - the year of death



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I am Earnur the lost...
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Mar 30, 2006

An interesting calculation Eanur. However what do you notice about those four numbers? They are all odd numbers before the number ten. I am sure if he had created another 'good race' he would have included the number five as well.


Perhaps this puts your mind at ease?



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Hobbits of The Shire - Rank 1
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Date: Mar 30, 2006
Well, Glorfindel, your point is correct and in place. However, many of the fairy writers use these numbers, but they have not died in the range og that years. Whether or not this is just accidental, but a fact remains this is still something to deal with.

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I am Earnur the lost...
Maiar
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Date: Apr 12, 2006
I've always found coincidences like that interesting.  It's like all that Nostradamus and prophecy stuff....only it's already happened.  Not that I believe in prophecy...

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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Date: Apr 30, 2006
It might be coincidence and it might not be..How shall we ever know?

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Olorin/Gandalf ;)
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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I doubt that Tolkien planned to die in 1973.

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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Yes, but some people just can make out points on when they think they will die or just leave clues about those things..You dont have to believe me, but one of my grandma's relatives marked out his own death day and year...And he died then

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Olorin/Gandalf ;)
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 30, 2006
bleah
anyway, you can make such connections very often...it is the smae with the so called "Bible Code" for example, something that seems unbelievable, but that actually happens in almost any very long book.



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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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In short, No Tolkien could not predict his own death, No one can unless they are planning on suicide.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: May 18, 2006
I suppose that sums it up well Mos111!

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Orc captain of Morgul - Rank 5
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Date: May 18, 2006
Coincidences happen all the time. I think it's funny how people believe stuff like, some people can predict there own death. I personally don't believe in stuff like that. I could say that, "I predict that I will die tomorrow", but if I did it would just be a coincidence. (I better not die tomorrow, I get paid )

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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That would be as bad as getting an arrow through the neck, and then discovering there's a gas bill tied to it...

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Black Numenorean - Rank 3
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Date: Sep 9, 2006
Olorin of Nienna wrote:


Yes, but some people just can make out points on when they think they will die or just leave clues about those things..You dont have to believe me, but one of my grandma's relatives marked out his own death day and year...And he died then



My Grandfather, went a similar way. Here's a bizarre story. While serving in WWI, and after contracting Malaria (which may explain the following) someone brought a large glass jar into my grandfather's tent. Inside the jar there was a little woman, and after wrapping a piece of paper around the jar, the woman wrote, through the glass, my grandfather's entire life story.


How many kids, when he'd get married...and when he would die (at age 85)! He started talking about it at age 80, and 1 month after his 85th birthday he passed, when he was not terribly ill.


No heart attack, no stroke, he did have emphysema, but it wasn't the cause. He believed it was his time, and he went. I don't know if there's any truth to premonitions, or whether it's just convincing yourself that something is going to happen, and in doing so, create a self fullfilling prophecy.


I apologize if this is wickedly off topic, but Olorin's post kind of struck a nerve. It shant happen again, unless asked for, as there is more to the story.



-- Edited by Anduril at 19:48, 2006-09-09

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Sep 9, 2006

Feel free to post anything you wish to say Anduril. Within reason this is a very accomadating forum for off-topic posts.


Please elaborate...



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Valar
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Date: Sep 10, 2006
I see no problem with it Anduril, it may not be about Tolkien personally, but it is on topic and has to deal with the topic, so feel free to continue.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Sep 10, 2006
I actually found that interesting

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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Date: Sep 14, 2006
To Anduril:

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Oi, a small women wrote? Tell us more please



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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Date: Dec 29, 2006
Earnur wrote:

3 Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky
7 for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone
9 for Mortal Men doomed to die,
1 for the Dark Lord on his dark throne.





In earlier drafts of the Ringverse, Tolkien had twelve Rings for Men, nine for Dwarves, three for Elves, and the One. He later changed it to nine for Elves, seven for Dwarves, three for Men, and the One. Later, he (finally) changed it to three for Elves, seven for Dwarves, nine for Men, and the One.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Dec 29, 2006
That is very interesting Tyrhael. Do you perhaps have the old drafts you can put on here for all to see? I never knew this.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Dec 29, 2006
very interesting...I never knew that...
still, I doubt he made these changes to fit the year of his death...

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Loremaster Elf of Mirkwood - Rank 4
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Date: Feb 21, 2007
From old mithology I know writers often make use of numbers which cannot be divided through 2: 1,3,5,7,9,11,13 etc So no wonder that 1,3,7 and 9 rings were given to each race. Further, we're dealing here with a pure coincidence, as far as I am concerned. Eventough, I know less from Tolkien's biography than I'd wish, I can insure everyone that he is far too healthy (up there) to make such morbid joke. Or at least, counting all his preocupations and works, I don't think there would have been any reasons for creating such scenario in the first place. A man with unendless thirst for literature, creation, art and science would need at least 1000 years to cover them all. So why 'planing' to die before fullfilling the 'chors'? But the issue is well put. It gives you a reason to think upon.

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Chief Maiar
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Date: Feb 21, 2007
Concerning Anduril's post (the story), i'd like to say that Tolkien mentioned in the Numenorian history that in the start Numenorians passed away when they felt they're ready for the "afterlife" (or atleast something like that). Perhaps so do we..we'll just have to wait for someone to die and then tell us if he/she thought so (didn't mean the last sentence as a joke.. )

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Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
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Date: Mar 5, 2007
Tyrhael wrote:

Earnur wrote:

3 Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky
7 for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone
9 for Mortal Men doomed to die,
1 for the Dark Lord on his dark throne.





In earlier drafts of the Ringverse, Tolkien had twelve Rings for Men, nine for Dwarves, three for Elves, and the One. He later changed it to nine for Elves, seven for Dwarves, three for Men, and the One. Later, he (finally) changed it to three for Elves, seven for Dwarves, nine for Men, and the One.



LOL. Unless the date of his departure had turned out to be 3791, there's no reason to put any faith in the Rasputinesque theory; after all, age 82 is a pretty normal exit time. Still quite an amusing observation... I love it.

The drafts Tyrhael refers to are given in The Return of the Shadow, The History of The Lord of the Rings v. I (HOME v.vi)
Twelve for Mortal Men doomed to die
Nine for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone
Three for the Elven-kings of earth, sea, and sky
one for the Dark Lord on his dark throne

It's too bad he didn't leave this version - he'd have been around until 13921



-- Edited by Celebrindal at 11:42, 2007-03-05

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Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
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Date: Mar 5, 2007
I agree that its completely coincidence. As seen the quotes above clearly indicate that this selection of numbers was not the first choice.

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