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Topic: Guarding Mount Doom

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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Posts: 43
Date: Mar 25, 2006
Guarding Mount Doom

In the war of the Ring why did Sauron always leave Mount Doom unguarded and simply guarded Modor itself, rather than preventing outsiders entering Mount Doom and destroying the Ring thus being the only place where it can be destroyed.

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Valar
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Date: Mar 25, 2006
Galadriel - there is a answer in your post already. Like you said: Mordor was heavily guarded (Sauron believed) and there was no reason to put extra guard to Mt Doom. He believed that no one couldn't get in to Mordor because Black Gate was so heavily guarded and also there was Shelob who guarded Cirith Ungol. It was a miracle that Sam and Frodo were able to get in to Mordor. And also he was in that belief that no one wouldn't even think about destroying the Ring.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Mar 30, 2006
I see what Galadriel means however. Becuase mt Doom was the only place the One ring could be destroyed, the intelligent dark Lord would not have left it open IF an enemy got past the outer defences. It would only have aided Sauron if he put some guard on mt Doom.

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Orc captain of Thangorodrim - Rank 3
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Date: Mar 30, 2006
But Glorfindel, why would Sauron defend against a course of action that he never thought that anyone would attempt.  "Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it.  If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning." (FotR, The Council of Elrond).

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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The old saying, 'Better to be safe than sorry', leaps to mind. Out of his many, tens of thousands of troops I am sure it would not have been a hinderance if he set a few dozen around mt Doom. Although he thought they would never attemp such a plan he new that the possibility, however minute (0.00000000001), was still there. It still existed so it would not have hurt to put the simple measurments down to completely prevent it.

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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Orc captain of Thangorodrim - Rank 3
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Date: Mar 30, 2006

Yes, the chance did still exist, but in order to guard against it, Sauron must actually recognize it as a possible scenario.  The quote does not say that Sauron did not think that anyone would attempt it, but that the thought of it actually being a possibility never even occurred to him.  So I ask again, why would he specifically guard against something that he never thought of happening?



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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 13, 2006
there is a very good quote exactly for your question in Lotr, so here it is:
"Here in the northward regions were the mines and forges, and the musterings of long-planned war; and here the Dark Power, moving its armies like pieces on the board, was gathering them together. Its first moves, the first feelers of its strength, had been checked upon its western line, southward and northward. For the moment it withdrew them, and brought up new forces, massing them about Cirith Gorgor for an avenging stroke. And if it had also been its purpose to defend the Mountain against all approach, it could scarcely have done more."
So as you see all the camps made on the plains of Gorgoroth provided an excellent defence for Mount Doom, even though this was not intended. And also as already said Sauron's pride made him not think of such a possibility. Still all the creatures that still waited on Gorgoroth and that had not already gone to battle against the Host of the West still were a good defence, and it was only by luck and the skill of the hobbits that they remained unseen.

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Valar
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Date: Apr 26, 2006
There was no reason to guard mount doom for there was no threat of the Ring's destruction. As Elendil says that Sauron didn't think the Ring could be destroyed. Sauron feared that someone would use the Ring against him, but he never believed anyone could destroy it (and he was right)...Tolkien also says no one could have had destroyed the Ring. The Ring's power at that one moment, whether to drop it in, or not is at it's height and no one had the power to resist it:

I do not think that Frodo’s was a moral failure. At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum - impossible, I should have said, for any one to resist, certainly after long possession, months of increasing torment, and when starved and exhausted.~Letter 246

So, there would be no reason to guard Mount Doom, if it was impossible for someone to "drop in the Ring." What Sauron didn't take into consideration is perhaps intervention by the Valar, and by Eru, which is what ended up happening.

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I am Lórien, Lord of Dreams, my true name is 'Irmo' in Quenya.
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Apr 26, 2006
firstly. welcome to the forums
secondly, impressive first post, and a very good quote
I am happy to see the forums are getting some good lore finally
and yes, you are right, as I said he was absolutely sure something like taht could never happen. Even if the Eye was looking towards Minas Tirith, Gorgoroth was still well protected, by chance, as shown in the quote above by orcs and men of the East
Also, very good point, it was likely that very few could have withstood the power of the Ring in the last moments in Orodruin.
As for the intervention...I don't think that it was it...
many have analysed the quote where Gandalf says that all the story of the Ring could have been planned by Eru all along, but I think it was the mercy that Bilbo, Frodo and Sam had for Gollum that more or less saved ME.

-- Edited by The Might at 21:31, 2006-04-26

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Valar
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Date: Apr 26, 2006

Thankyou for the welcome and the compliments...


As far as the Ring's destruction, this has always been an up to grabs sort of thing.  Your idea, of course makes sense, that the Ring was already destined to be destroyed...and I've also seen arguments made that Eru caused the earthquake to have Gollum fall in, as it shows that he still cared for Middle-earth, as well as Gollum just simply slipped in because he was overfilled with joy.



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I am Lórien, Lord of Dreams, my true name is 'Irmo' in Quenya.
Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
Status: Offline
Posts: 3118
Date: Apr 26, 2006
I think, not necessarily joy, but more or less lack of attention. He was so madly driven to get the ring back that he didn't even look to where he stepped. I think the koy part came in as he was falling down towards the lava...lol
And I doubt the Valar or Eru would intervene directly. The Valar had decided to stay away from it all and let things take their course.
The only way they made a difference was indirectly, usually by their represantatives, like the Ents, the Eagles, or the Istari.
If we are to discuss the concept of fate...I think we can never come to a clear outcome-with or without any quotes...simply because the idea of fate would be the same as in our world.
The question whether fate is already written so that no matter what we will do, it will happen, or that fate does not exist and that future is created any new second...
Also, to say that Eru knew anything that would happen, means that he did not need to use something like an earthquake, because he simply already knew that Gollum would fall into Orodruin with the ring...
this sounds like a topic for the analytical forum...but discussing the existence of fate is far too complicated here

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