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Topic: Witchking of Angmar vs Gandalf

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Mar 20, 2006
Witchking of Angmar vs Gandalf

What are your thoughts? any quotes would be good in deciding the outcome.

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Auta  i  lómë! 
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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Date: Mar 20, 2006
Gandalf was a Maiar whereas Angmar was only a man and even if he was one of the Numenoreans he could not have deafeted Gandlaf, wisest of Maiar.

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Rohan peasant - Rank 2
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Date: Mar 21, 2006
Of course, he could never defeat Gandalf, but I was wondering if Gandalf could defeat him? For, correct me if I'm wrong, Gandalf was a man and could not destroy him. Also, Sauron had imparted great powers to the witchking. And he did have one of the rings of power at one point.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Mar 21, 2006

"correct me if I am wrong"


I am afraid I will have to take you up on that Scotta! No Gandalf was not a man, He was a Maiar bound to a phisical form (such as a man) when he left Valinor on the Istari quest.
Manwe wished for the Istari to be bound to phisical limits so they would not frighten or intimidate the peoples of middle-earth, thus more likely to gain there trust and combat the onslaught of Sauron.



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Chief Maiar
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Date: Mar 21, 2006
Of course I could defeat him!!!! But I would have had a grave moral dilemma in using any 'powers' that I had by being a maia, since I was instructed (as well all of the Istari...grrrr Saruman) by Manwe King of the Arda, Breath of the West, not to aid men by using our powers since that could inevitably lead to our corruption and thus leading to more evil maia like Sauron (and grrrrrrr Saruman).
N.B. I could have defeated Sauron never mind the Witchking hahahaha

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Mar 21, 2006
Ha! you would be so lucky Olorin. Gandalf may be the wisest maiar but he ain't the mightiest and could not have defeated Sauron!

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Rohan peasant - Rank 2
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Date: Mar 22, 2006

(Please have a little grace with this one, it is WAY early in the morning and I'm trying to get a postin before I have to be outa here!)


Oh, okay. I thought that since he was bound to the form of a man he would be limiteded by that form (even though he still had his powers he would not have been able to use them to the extent that would have been needed to defeat the witchking). Also, didn't Sauron abandon the form of any mortal when he began to try to take over?


Okay well, I'm just trying to figure it out myself. I have not read the Sil. in a very long time and there are gaps in my memory!



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Chief Maiar
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Date: Mar 23, 2006

Sauron lost the ability to appear noble or good with the destruction of Numenor though he did still clad himself as a man, but as Denethor pointed out Sauron would only come forth from Barad Dur to gloat over his victory when the war was won.


Mouth: Gandalf could defeat anyone, here me anyone I tells ya!! But when asked to goto middle-earth by Manwe his answer was that he was too weak and he was affraid of Sauron. (So maybe he'd hide in a corner, lol)



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...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.

Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Mar 23, 2006
Sauron lost the ability to appear fair to Elves with the creation on the One ring. He then lost the ability to appear fair and wise, or take shape as another when he was cast down into the abyss with the fall of Numenor. He then took up a terrible form, not of a man, but of malice and hatred shown in appearance.

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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Valar
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Posts: 120
Date: Mar 24, 2006
Grey - That was the main reason why they send Olorin to Middle-Earth. Old wisdom tells that you have to fear and respect your enemy before you can win him. Olorin was aware of that he wasn't as powerful than Sauron and he feared him. But i remember one quote (something to do with palantir) that Gandalf said that he wasn't ready to face Sauron yet, if he ever will be. So this gives to reason to believe that he was getting ready to face him eventually. Or then not.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Mar 27, 2006

Great a valar has been appointed.
I am your servant Lord Tulkas



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Rohan peasant - Rank 2
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Date: Apr 19, 2006

I'm sorry but groveling does not suit you, TM!



-- Edited by ScotlandishDrama at 00:51, 2006-04-21

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Valar
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Date: Apr 26, 2006

Of course Gandalf could have beaten the Witch-King, rather easily too...


Tolkien tells us in Letter:
Their peril is almost entirely due to the unreasoning fear which they inspire (like ghosts). They have no great physical power against the fearless~Letter 183
The Nazgul didn't have great physical power over the fearless, and Gandalf shows no fear to them.  He stood against the Witch-King at Gondor's gate and he fought them on Weathertop.


Speaking of Gandalf the the WK's confrontation at Gondor's Gate, Gandalf is intent on going after the Witch-King.  After the Witch-king leaves to go see who's arriving, Gandalf is intent on going after him, knowing he can cause a lot of death and destruction...but is stopped by Pippin to go and save Faramir who was wrongfully going to be killed by his father.


Gandalf could have easily more powerful than the Witch-King.



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I am Lórien, Lord of Dreams, my true name is 'Irmo' in Quenya.
Soldier of the East - Rank 4
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Posts: 306
Date: Oct 1, 2006

I read somewere (might have been another furum but I'm not shore) that Gandalf's powers were somewere equal to that of all nine Nazgul. So unless the other eight were nothing than Gandalf would have beteen The Witch King, easily.



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Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Date: Sep 9, 2011
Hmm I don't remember where I heard that...lol sorry

I do remember that the witch-king was not intimidated by Gandalf at all. Implying that the witch-king did not need his enemy to fear him in order for him, the witch-king that is, to defeat his enemy(s)

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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Date: Aug 16, 2012
I think Gandalf would win because a Maia is strong compared to a Mortal Man like the Witch King so Gandalf has powers that the Nine Mortal Men are weak against!

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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Date: Aug 16, 2012

I cannot insult my master anymore!



-- Edited by Zekrom on Thursday 16th of August 2012 09:03:00 AM

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Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
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Date: Aug 16, 2012
Beast of hell, Gothmog you are correct

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