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Topic: Beleriand area

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Posts: 2161
Date: Mar 15, 2006
Beleriand area

One thing i do not understand is why The first peoples to arive in Beleriand would start making settlements there so close to Udun. Can anybody account for such an obscure and dangerous location?

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Chief Maiar
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Date: Mar 18, 2006
Maybe at the time they actually 'made' their settlements they did not know of the danger from the north. Good question...come on people answer the question I want to know more aswell!!!!!

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Valar
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Date: Mar 18, 2006

Yes Aldudenie is correct there. When Bėor and his people crossed Blue Mountains and they arrived to beleriand as a first people, they believed that they had finally arrived to land where was no fear. 


 "Now these were a part of of the kindred and following of Bėor the Old, as he was afterwards called, a chieftain among Men. After many lives of wandering out of the East he had led them at last over the Blue Mountains, the first of the race of Men to enter Beleriand; and they sang because they were glad, and believed that they had escaped from all perils and had come at last to a land without fear."Silm, Of the Coming of Men into the West.


So according to this quote, you are correct in your theories.



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Chief Maiar
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Date: Mar 19, 2006
Marvellous, thankyou Agarwaen for the quote.

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...But it was so that from Nienna he learned pity and patience.

Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
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Date: Mar 21, 2006

By "the first people" you mean Elves, I presume. And I would not have said you refered to the Exiles unless you mentioned an arrival, not the Awakening. I shall risk being reproached here:


The Noldor followed Fėanor to Beleriand to repossess the Gems. That is why Curufinwė's sons went far north, all the way to Lothlann [among other reasons]. Some Men were attracted by their wisdom and power. I do not think there is much more to it. As for the settlements, when North falls, falls Beleriand.



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[under construction]

Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Mar 21, 2006
Great to see your still with us Elvish avatguardian I thought we had lost you!

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Utślie'n  aurė!  Aiya  Eldaliė  ar  Atanatįri,  utślie'n  aurė! 
Auta  i  lómė! 
Aurė entuluva!

Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
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Date: Mar 22, 2006

I do hope that I shall write up to the expectations and approval I read between the lines. This site feels like home, and I am glad to have been among the first to register here. I encourage you, whose mother tongue is English, to come forth with constructive criticism of any kind.


 


And I am honoured to share epic archetypes of Tolkien's novels, beautiful as they are, with you.



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[under construction]

Orc captain of Thangorodrim - Rank 3
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Date: Mar 25, 2006

I believe that there's a small error in your first post, Glorfindel. You say that the first people to enter Beleriand made settlements rather close to Udūn, but this is not so. Udūn, otherwise known as Utumno, was located farther east. It was so far east, in fact, that the Elves could see the lights of the battle between the Valar and Melkor after they had awoken at Cuivienen, which was a bay on the eastern side of the inland sea of Helcar. The fortress that you are refering to I believe is that of Angband, since it is just to the north of Beleriand.


Now, as for why people settled there.


The very first people to settle in Beleriand were the Sindar and, eventually, the Laiquendi. When they first settled in Beleriand and Ossiriand, there was no thread in the north. Melkor had been defeated in the Battle of the Powers and was chained away in Mandos for three Ages before being released and so things were relatively calm and peaceful. This was when Thingol and Melian established their realm in Doriath.


Concerning why the Noldor later established their realms in the northern reaches of Beleriand, it is rather simple. The only reason they had even returned to Middle-earth was to take their revenge on Morgoth and recover the Silmarils. So it's only logical they set up their realms in the north, closest to Angband, from wence they could keep a close watch on Melkor.


Finally, concerning Men: They came into Beleriand because they thought that in the west (ie: Beleriand), they would find peace. They knew little or nothing of Morgoth or Angband until coming over the Ered Luin and entering into the War of the Jewels. They were trying to escape the evils that had tortured them in their homelands and, ironically, plunged head-first into the most heated part of the World. Once there, however, they thought to aid the Elves in defeating Morgoth since they could go no further west due to Belegaer and had no wish to return east from where they came.



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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Date: Jun 1, 2006
wait,I don't want to sound "Tolkien stupid" but isn't Udun a nort-western part of Mordor? which isn't in Beleriand?

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Orc captain of Morgul - Rank 5
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Date: Jun 1, 2006
 Aredhel- Udun was a fortress of Melkor in the far north of the World. It was the first and greatest of Melkor's citadels, delved in the earliest days.
It was no where near Mordor.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Jun 1, 2006

When Sauron became the second Dark lord and occupied Mordor he named many things in remembrance of his masters reign.


In the War of the Ring he named one of his chief servants 'Gothmog', who lead the battle of Pellenor under the Witchking. Now 'Gothmog' is Morgoth's chief servant (lord of the Balrogs) alongside Sauron.


He also named the 100 foot long battering ram 'Grond' which burst through the gates of Minas Tirith. 'Grond' was actually the name of Morgoth's Hammer weapon - The Dread hammer/Hammer of the Underworld.


And you give a further example of Sauron dedication to his master. he named the hollowed out part of land in North-western Mordor before the Black gate 'Udun', which means 'Hell. This was the Name of Morgoth's Chief fortress which was destroyed by the Valar in the second war between Melkor and the Valar named 'The War of Powers'.


Any other exmples?



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Orc captain of Morgul - Rank 5
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Date: Jun 1, 2006
Oh yeah. I forgot that there was a place called Udun in Mordor as well. Thanks for reminding me mos.

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"Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulūk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"
Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Posts: 53
Date: Jun 1, 2006

but I just looked at the map of Middle-earth and Udun IS in the north-west corner of Mordor!


maybe there were two:)



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anar kaluva tielyanna!
Orc captain of Morgul - Rank 5
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Posts: 318
Date: Jun 1, 2006
There were two Aredhel. Read mos' post.

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"Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulūk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"
Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Posts: 53
Date: Jun 1, 2006

ok.we got that problem solved



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anar kaluva tielyanna!
Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Jun 1, 2006
You posted at the same time as Bauglir who has now been corrected. Yes Udun was a northwestern part of Mordor.

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Elf of Beleriand - Rank 2
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Posts: 42
Date: Jan 3, 2007
One note on this subject that I wanted to say is that really only the followers of Faenor came to Beleriand to fight for the Silmarils.  Fingolfin and his group, the much larger group came because they wanted to find new places for themselves that they could rule over.  It just happened at the time they left was the time of Faenors leave of Valinor.

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