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Topic: Morgoth's Children- speculative

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Hobbit from Hobbiton - Rank 4
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Posts: 217
Date: Feb 4, 2010
Morgoth's Children- speculative


I always felt that JRR could write about, absolute evil....in only a palatable way.

True he wrote the works in a more innocent time.

I also feel that although he wrote about unspeakable evil, he being such a good person, did not understand "evil". (I'm only vaguely nasty...but I'd shock JRR).

I am not JRR and it's 2010.

Hmmmmmmm

Melian begat Luthian

Wouldn't Morgoth begat such a creature(s)
Could this be the unspeakable (for JRR) origin of orcs ?

His very seed, mixed with the Children of Eru.

Unspeakble in JRR's time.....

Corrupted elves..........corrupted men.........or the foul offsping of woman?




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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Posts: 2161
Date: Feb 5, 2010
What are you asking here Filli?

I think Tolkien could have done little more to debase the orcs even more than they were. Where, in any of the works, do we see an orc showing the slightest bit of mercy?

And as for the likes of Morgoth - this is deep stuff, deeper than anything we have in our own history. Morgoth was a direct rebel against God Himself. He wasn't acting for what he perceived to the the 'Greater Good' or his own idea of a 'better world'. By the end of his reign he had entered a stage of utter destruction and was intent solely on marring the work of the Valar, and ultimately Iluvatar's Creation, in anyway possible. Tolkien even says that, had Morgoth been successful, we would have slain even his own servants and continued raging until he had reduced Arda back into a 'formless chaos'.

Can't really see how you can get any worse.

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Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Posts: 377
Date: Sep 9, 2011
Interesting Glor. Where did Tolkien make that statement aboth Morgoth's intentions?

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Date: Sep 23, 2011
I'm still very curious about this when you have time to answer Glorfindel1235

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Sep 27, 2011
He makes that statement here:

"He was aware, at any rate originally when still capable of rational thought, that he could not 'annihilate'** them: that is, destroy their being; but their physical 'life', and incarnate form became increasingly to his mind the only thing that was worth considering.+ Or he became so far advanced in Lying that he lied even to himself, and pretended that he could destroy them and rid Arda of them altogether. Hence his endeavour always to break wills and subordinate them to or absorb them into his own will and being, before destroying their bodies. This was sheer nihilism, and negation its one ultimate object: Morgoth would no doubt, if he had been victorious, have ultimately destroyed even his own 'creatures', such as the Orcs, when they had served his sole purpose in using them: the destruction of Elves and Men. Melkor's final impotence and despair lay in this: that whereas the Valar (and in their degree Elves and Men) could still love 'Arda Marred', that is Arda with a Melkor-ingredient, and could still heal this or that hurt, or produce from its very marring, from its state as it was, things beautiful and lovely, Melkor could do nothing with Arda, which was not from his own mind and was interwoven with the work and thoughts of others: even left alone he could only have gone raging on till all was levelled again into a formless chaos. And yet even so he would have been defeated, because it would still have 'existed', independent of his own mind, and a world in potential." Morgoth's Ring

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Utúlie'n  aurë!  Aiya  Eldalië  ar  Atanatári,  utúlie'n  aurë! 
Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Tower Guard of Minas Tirith - Rank 4
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Posts: 377
Date: Sep 27, 2011
Wow, thank you for the quote Glor. Its really amazing how truely evil Morgoth was

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But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom,nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor;
 
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