Tolkien Top 100 Middle Earth's Top 100
Members Login
    Remember Me  

Topic: Basic Elf

Post Info
Lord Elrond of Rivendell - Rank 9
Status: Offline
Posts: 2960
Date: Oct 8, 2009
RE: Basic Elf

Galin wrote on 10/06/09

Don't forget Eol was an Elda though, not an Avar (to use the singular form of each). Some Avarin details and history can be found in the linguistic essay Quendi And Eldar (or part one of this post) where a number of things are said about them, or Eol, including:

A) Some Avari ultimately migrated to Beleriand (after initially refusing the Great March of course).

B) Eol was an Avar

C) The Avari in general remained secretive, hostile to the Eldar, and untrustworthy, and dwelt in hidden places in the deeper woods or in caves

D) Lindarin elements in Western Avari however, were friendly to the Eldar D1 even later merging in Eriador and in the Vale of Anduin

E) The Noldor asserted that most of theTeleri were at heart Avari

F) The Teleri asserted that most of the Noldor in Aman were Avari at heart, returning to Middle-earth when they discovered their mistake.

G) The term Moriquendi may have had a (very) early: 'tinge of scorn, implying that such folk were not averse to the shadows of Melkor upon Middle-earth.' It is said here that later the Noldor modified their use of the terms Calaquendi and Moriquendi, which was offensive to the Sindar -- Moriquendi then did not apply to the Sindar.

Note 9 adds that the implication that the Moerbin (a Sindarin word, sort of meant 'Dark-elves' but also applied to other incarnates) were allies of Morgoth, or at least of dubious loyalty was, however, untrue with regard to the Avari.


However, later texts state that (compare the following to the same colour above):

A) 'It is doubtful if any of the Avari ever reached Beleriand' 

B) In very late work Eol is one of the Eldar

D1) The Silvan Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien 'are specifically declared to be descended from the Telerin Elves who remained in the Vale of Anduin.' They are here in origin Eldar (all of them in the Third Age?)

G) 'Elves of Darkness' 'in no way implied any evil, or subordination to Morgoth'.

So there are a few things either altered, or left confusing, by comparison to text dated later than Quendi And Eldar (the list is not meant to be exhaustive incidentally). In the Foreword to The Peoples of Middle-Earth CJRT will note that sometimes it remains an open question as to whether or not some of the seeming departures from earlier work represent revision, or his father writing largely from memory. In any event, in 'part two' of this post the examples A and G are from Of Dwarves And Men, B is noted by CJRT in notes to Quendi And Eldar, and D1 is according to a late etymological discussion published in Unfinished Tales.

The reason I bring up D1 is that it makes me wonder if there are Avari mixed in with the Silvan Elves of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, especially in Lorien, noting that the Silvan Elves of Lorien are generally said to sail Over Sea in The Lord of the Rings, and in the late text Amroth And Nimrodel, Amroth's explanation to Nimrodel suggests (to my mind anyway) that the Silvan Elves of Lorien made the Great Journey at least (even if they did not go as far as others).

In any case, interesting that Tolkien called the West Elves Eldar in Appendix F, but yet did not assign 'Avari' to the East Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien.

-- Edited by Galin on Thursday 8th of October 2009 12:18:18 AM


Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit
Called or uncalled, God is present

«First  <  1 2 | Page of 2  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.


Please log in to join the chat!

Previous poll results (What is the 'Mightiest' weapon in Tolkiens myth?): Gurthang, blade of Turin - 28%, Narsil, sword of Elendil - 12%, Anduril, Sword of King Ellesar Aragorn - 23%, The Mace of the Witch King - 5%, Grond the dread hammer/hammer of the underworld -19%, Black axe of Gothmog - 4, Glamdring of Gandalf - 7%, Orcrist of Thorin - 1% A NEW POLL HAS BEEN ADDED TO TOLKIEN FORUMS Tolkien Forums - The Mythical world of J.R.R Tolkien