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Topic: Melkor's Power Restored?

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Ao
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date: Oct 19, 2008
Melkor's Power Restored?

I've read the Silmarillion and it's stated that Melkor/Morgoth hated the Sun and that he wanted to assault it but he couldn't for he does not have the power to do so because he spread his power on the land and creatures he corrupted but in the Dagor Dagorath it's stated that when he breaks free from his imprisonment he will destroy both the sun and the moon, ergo does this mean he somehow regained/recharged his power upon captivity on the void?

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Posts: 2372
Date: Oct 20, 2008
What you are refering to is called the Dagor Dagorath, the Last Battle and the Day of Doom. You'll find some interesting topics on that if you use the search function.

In brief it goes thus:

Long Ages after the Third Age, far beyond the overthrow of Sauron, Morgoth will find a way to break through the Door to the Night and will bring with him his host of foul creatures of Evil and wage the greatest battle ever known on the plains of Valinor. This is based most closely on the norse Ragnorok (spelling?). In Christianity we have the Apocolips.

Some details of varying account include...

Melkor detroying the Sun and Moon by 'contriving a quarrel between them' or some such,

Turin slaying Melkor, thus being avenged for his families curse,

Gandalf slaying Sauron on that day

Indeed Melkor is said to have regained all his spent strength in his ages in the Void, and thus descends once again as the most Powerful being in Ea.

I advise using the search function though, for quotes and the likesmile.gif

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Posts: 3118
Date: Oct 20, 2008
Indeed he could not destroy the Sun for Arien burnt him.

What he does in the end destroy is not Arien or Tilion as spirits but only the vessels of the Sun and of the Moon as they are been driven by the two Maiar, so only the physical party so to speak.

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Honor, Freedom, Fatherland
Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
Status: Offline
Posts: 2161
Date: Oct 23, 2008
The Might wrote:
Indeed he could not destroy the Sun for Arien burnt him.

What he does in the end destroy is not Arien or Tilion as spirits but only the vessels of the Sun and of the Moon as they are been driven by the two Maiar, so only the physical party so to speak.

Hmm but like Mos said, isn't there a version where Melkor 'contrives a quarrel' between the Sun and Moon? That would be quite hard to do if their Maiar spirits had fled and only the vessels remained. Confusedhmm



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Ao
Being lies with Eru - Rank 1
Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date: Oct 26, 2008
I see, so the accounts of the final battle differ from one another, one version saying he personally destroyed the sun and the moon and another version stating he contrived discord between the two maiar holding them causing their destruction, but we all agree that Melkor's power was "recharged" after his long incarceration in the Void. Again thanks for clearing things up for me.

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Fundin, Lord of Moria - Rank 5
Status: Offline
Posts: 562
Date: Oct 26, 2008
Glorfindel1235 wrote: Hmm but like Mos said, isn't there a version where Melkor 'contrives a quarrel' between the Sun and Moon?

That's from The Book of Lost Tales, so very early (the spirits are named Urwendi and Ilinsor here, or some other early variant). I don't recall at the moment if the idea specifically appears again.

Anyway, in Morgoth's Ring Tolkien notes that the: 'dark spirit of Melkor's remainder' might be expected, therefore, eventually and after long ages to increase again, even (as some held) to draw back into itself some of its formerly dissipated power (...) but all simply to recover enough strength to return to the attack on the Valar, and to its old obsession.' (...) means I edited the quote for brevity. See Text VII Myths Transformed.

In the Quenta Silmarillion of the later 1930s the text says that Morgoth will destroy the Sun and Moon (but not how IIRC). This was part of the Second Prophecy of Mandos, which Christopher Tolkien did not include in the published Silmarillion. CJRT commented that the Second Prophecy had been abandoned, and I think he meant in the sense that the Vala Mandos was not to deliver a prophecy concerning the 'Last Battle'.


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