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Topic: Why so small a realm?

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Jan 31, 2007
Why so small a realm?

Although Numenor was a land of plenty why did the Valar make Andor, the Land of Gift so small? It it star shaped and would fit inside the realm of Mordor with room to share. Surely the Valar must have known that this would later make the Numenoreans long for more open Lands in Middle-earth once they grew greater.

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Witchking of Angmar - Rank 10
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Date: Jan 31, 2007

They were given enough room to be able to live a good and peaceful life, and that is a gift enough. One could ask himself why Manwe didn't ask Eru to make them immortal so as to avoid any possible conflict in the future.

Fact is the Valar were hoping the Numenoreans to be thankful with their gift, and not try to conquer every other land as well. 



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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Feb 1, 2007
Things only started going ill for the Numenoreans when Melkor's will cast a shadow of doubt about Death onto them. Up until that point they were quite content in Ruling Numenor, voyaging the Eastern seas and teaching the lesser men of Middle-earth. Its only when they started to fear Death did they hunger for the Undying lands, the first beginnings of there downfall which were after exaggerated by Sauron when Ar-pharazon brought him to Numenor.

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Thorin Oakenshield - Rank 6
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Date: Feb 6, 2007
Isn't there Eastern Lands East of Middle-earth? Couldn't the Numenoreans have been given those instead of a whole island having to be built? And then the Nuemnoreans would have much more room.

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Feb 11, 2007
Interesting thoughts there Bilbo. I suppose Tolkien wanted to keep the Lands East of Middle-earth empty and mysterious. Besides, having an island made in between ME and Aman showed how much the Valar regarded the Edain compared to other men becuase they let them closer to Valinor.

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Elf of Rivendell - Rank 2
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Date: Feb 11, 2007
The eastern regions of Middle-earth were already populated by the Easterlings (as well as Dwarves, probably) — the Númenóreans sailed to the south of Middle-earth and took tribute (after previously having taught) ... I doubt it would have been morally acceptable to supplant the Easterlings and 'conquer' or take over the lands of Rhûn. Calenardhon being granted to the Éothéod was another story, as it had been overrun by the Balchoth before it was granted after the Riders freed it. But I digress... I agree with mouth of sauron that the location of Westernesse in connection with Aman (and the distance, closer than the other regions of ME) is important in a symbolic sense.

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Anarion, Son of Elendil - rank 8
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Date: Feb 12, 2007
I think you will find that they mean the Lands East of Middle-earth as in the Lands of Sun and the Dark South lands. These are not in ME but are seperate continents in the far East. To find them have a look at the First and Second Age maps in the Maps of Arda center.

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Auta  i  lómë! 
Aurë entuluva!

Soldier of Beleriand - Rank 3
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Date: Jul 30, 2009
I think the purpose in giving Númenorians their own island was both to give them a land to call their own and also allow them to live in close proximity to Aman, a place that Men would normally never be allowed to go near. The shores of Tol Eressëa could be seen from the summit of Meneltarma, the place where the Númenorians worshipped.  Thus, the Valar gave them a blessed land near a blessed realm rather than granting them a larger but less auspicious portion of already-occupied Middle Earth.

I was curious to see how big Númenor really was, so I took a look at maps that have been drawn.  By my measurements, Númenor is 600+ miles wide at its widest point and over 400 miles long.  Using my extremely rough estimate, and the simplest possible formula for area, which doesn't account for the variance in the "points" of the star, and taking into consideration the inescapable fact that I am calculating based on a fictional map, that would make Númenor around 240,000 square miles in area, about the same size as Japan and larger than Great Britain.  Add in the blessings of the Valar and a triple lifespan and I don't think the Númenoreans had too much to complain about ;)

If someone would like to calculate the size more accurately, feel free, but that's about as much math as I'm willing to do this early in the morning.


-- Edited by The Secret Fire on Thursday 30th of July 2009 12:25:30 PM

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Samwise Gamgee - rank 9
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Date: Jul 30, 2009
Taken from Karen Wynn Fonstad's 'The Atlas of Tolkien's Middle-earth' the isle of Numenor was 167,961 square miles.

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Soldier of Beleriand - Rank 3
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Date: Jul 30, 2009
Whoa! I have that book and I guess I never noticed that. I calculated by just multiplying widest point by longest point, but I couldn't be bothered to deduct all the bays between each arm of the star.

I have to pull that book out again sometime, every time I look at it I notice something new and interesting.

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